into unnamed :)

[Conti]

I've made some progress I suppose. :) Looking into my mind during normal activities I see a still awareness in the background, which reflects thoughts and emotions. The pressure of everyday life and lack of distance (mainly inner space) makes me identify with the elements which are the most visible. Looking deeper in a relaxed way I see the awareness. This act of noticing it makes that it expresses more freely. Then emotions and thoughts only appear in awareness and fade after their time is out.
Looking today into my awareness I found a helpful recollection of the insight from the past, when driving a car :) I realized that at the very moment I am creating my personality, my life, my attitudes out of pure undefined consciousness. They are not firm or once defined - all options are available as the choice is made every second of my life. The recollection helped me to dive deeper into awareness - I may observe thoughts appear. I don't see why the thoughts and emotions I regarded as one continuity, entity...

I found out what fear comes from: I am afraid to fall apart :) as I lose the continuity of "myself". There are holes in it but I've learnt to pretended there aren't. I'm happy to meet you and the group of LU, as you are not afraid to leave the known.

On the other hand I"ve noticed there's much tension in me - that's also a sign of "I" hidden. I may observe it as happening, but I see it's an obstacle to relax and get to the relaxed awareness. Most tensions are connected with other people. I need some more digging.

[otterrivers]

this is all good, but you didn't quite answer the question. I am pointing you to "What experiences this?" look deeply. There is a self or there isn't. which do you see? and if there is not a self, what experiences this now?
If "I" is illusion, then what is gaining or losing the "I"?

it is common to identify with what is experienced. but to see it as it is, is very important in this process. you can look and maybe find there is no self entity there to identify with any of the experience, then conditioned thought processes can jump in and say "I am the one who sees that there is not a self entity" you see?

so to bring this into experiential knowing/seeing rather than intellectual understanding,(digging) we can use this small exercise:
listen with your ears now. the sounds around you or the silence... they are there, no doubt, but look for the separation between the sound and the hearing of the sound. try to find the point where experience becomes experiencED. Is the stimulus separate from the noticing of it? and what does this say about the notice/experiencer?

[otterrivers]

i have to leave now and, possibly will not be able to respond until tomorrow night. just wanted to let you know

[Conti]

OK! No problem.
Btw I see good changes in my life. No expectations and loosened grip of I makes it all more lively and happy. I've just learnt how to switch from the experiencing consciousness itself (looking into mind) to focus on anything else without losing any clarity... It gives tickles inside. That's the beginning but I sense this can go really far, for me this is the first step into liberation.

I am pointing you to "What experiences this?" look deeply. There is a self or there isn't. which do you see? and if there is not a self, what experiences this now?
If "I" is illusion, then what is gaining or losing the "I"?

I'll try to be honest the best I can. "What experiences this" - it is experienced by space-like awareness. I will be happy to look deeper...

I can't find any experiencer, I feel I am experienced (however stupid it sounds). The experiences of my senses or thoughts together with "I" are experienced by subtle awareness. I feel some tensions running through me - I touched something sensitive. I've been flooded for a moment with a large quantity of pieces of thoughts - impulses, residuals(?)... I keep asking myself to stay on the track. LOL. I am creating something in that pure formless awareness to be able to experience it :):). That is really funny. If I want to experience "I" something is made (a form appears suited to needs) so I may call it so. Any other thing may also appear :). Self doesn't exist but it may be experienced by creating some mind form. If it's not kept it dissolves. All dissolves if it's not kept by some part of the awareness.
It's a fascinating process.
There are some elements that disrupt the process of dissolving - it's interesting, they are beliefs, alive experiences (it's hard to call them past, as they are vivid alive threads). Self is a mind form or a belief based on them. Just like making a triangle by connecting three points :). Dissolving is letting go, let it happen, not interfering.

How it would be to experience everything anew? In an undisturbed way?

listen with your ears now. the sounds around you or the silence... they are there, no doubt, but look for the separation between the sound and the hearing of the sound. try to find the point where experience becomes experiencED. Is the stimulus separate from the noticing of it? and what does this say about the notice/experiencer?

The sounds cannot be separated from hearing... Oh. The sound is ... now experienced, the point is every second new (I'm listening to the low humming of my notebook). I'll continue tomorrow as I feel I'll fall asleep soon :).

[Conti]

I am listening to some music now. What strikes me is that music is not only the matter of hearing sounds as but the matter of perception/ interpretation of sound waves. This may be not the subject here, but the observation is quite interesting to me. Also the mechanism of tuning my mind waves and body to the music - the pattern of sound waves - experience - how it unfolds. What do you mean by "experience becomes experienced" - the experience is always at the point of being experienced - no past no future - just flowing.
It's just impossible to separate the stimulus from its perception (my mind tells me that stimulus may remain unnoticed, but is it a stimulus then? Who knows that's a stimulus if it doesn't stimulate?).
The experiencer? Can't find..

[Conti]

Waiting for your return I'll write something about what's happening.
Actually I feel now at ease with life... It all goes smoothly without any interference, expectation or choosing/ willing from my part. It was a bit surprising yesterday that I went for help with my car to neighbors with whom we are not in a friendly relationship, but I didn't mind. It all went very good and it brought much joy :). To be exact this was the first time I asked them for help... :)
On the other point I don't make any formal practice and I don't see why I should (???). I see my Buddhist friends publishing pictures of monks of Tibet or India on FB and I don't have the clue what for? I don't feel that being anywhere else with anybody else would make any difference (maybe except for my guru lama, but he's in parinirvana)...
The sense of sadness and hopelessness dissolved - I don't feel it any longer... The energy flows as the world turns around :). I'll observe it longer to be sure that it lasts :).

[otterrivers]

I apologize for my absence. there has been a very sudden and unexpected death in our family/home(Tuesday. and I haven't had much free time. sorry I didn't tell you earlier. I will try to read and respond again tonight. :)

[Conti]

Oh! I understand.... Your family must go through difficult moments...

[Conti]

It's beginning to get me (how stupid it sounds "I'm beginning to get it"). What is not - dissolves. Maybe it will take some time maybe not - I don't know. But I know there's no self. :). And that is a good news. But it's just a beginning... A sense of happiness and aliveness is running through me.

[otterrivers]

i'd like to ask that you keep your answers shorter. there is nothing wrong with long answers, but please try to keep it short and to the point. this will really help. think "Haiku". Short and only what is essential. it will keep you focused and also help me see more clearly what you are saying. and all the guides that have to read this later will appreciate it too. :)

[otterrivers]

when you say "the sound is now experienced" that implies duality between experiencer and what is experienced. I am not saying it is absolute truth that there is no duality, but I am pointing you to look and feel beyond what is thought about it. before any thought.

when I said "try to find the point where experience becomes experiencED" I did not mean to say there is a point where this happens, I am asking: can you find this point of separation? Even in the experience of seeming like there is an "experience-ER", Is this anything other than experience being experienced? you can see here the limits of language. one thing happens yet we have no way to speak of it without using terms of subject vs object. all I can do with words is point you towards a unity that is instantly diverged from when a concept (thoughts/words) is formed. I ask a question which points you in the right direction, yet if you follow that direction to a conclusion, you have gone too far. my job is to keep you going through this place until you can recognize it for what it is all on your own. like an egg rolling past the incubator, I will keep nudging you as hard or soft as I feel you need. the rest happens on it's own. we have no say in it. (see I can get overly mental and metaphoric too haha)

so I will ask a direct question which can be answered without speculation or mental exertion. just look and report what is seen.

whether you remain aware and open, or get distracted and identified with circumstances; whether you realize you are no more than a character in a story made entirely of thought, (thought BY nobody) or believe deeply that this being-ness is a separate entity contained in a body called "conti".... Whether a beautiful liberating story, or a horrible story of illusion and suffering is written, ...what is always there in the background? (again, no thinking needed. look and report. if you don't know, that is the answer you write. k?)

[Conti]

LOL :) No problem! Oh, it's all so funny now :).

There's no sign of me...
Who then can feel taste and see?
... Self-being off-self....

I am asking: can you find this point of separation? Even in the experience of seeming like there is an "experience-ER", Is this anything other than experience being experienced?

I try to find anything other than experience... Overwhelming experience of joy and light-heartedness is now running through me and it's distracting. There can't be any separation from experience - it's impossible. I might produce some mental process with interpretation and that would create a separation, but I would lose a direct experience...

I observed yesterday the process of superficial self forming. I don't know if it's relevant here, if yes I may describe. I have a habit of mind-observing...

[Conti]

I am aware that my language is full of "I" but i cannot communicate otherwise... If we could use chat or something like that it would be easier to go over language.

[otterrivers]

oh we understand the issue of using pronouns in language. it's something we don't worry about. using strange language like "that is seen here" isn't really going to help anything. we don't mind just saying "I agree" or something. :) we are really good at being able to tell which perspective our clients speak from. we may ask from time to time that you explain what you mean by "I" but we can use language without taking it literally. I can chat on facebook if you'd like. I will just cut and paste the conversation here later. if you want to, I am "Otter Rivers" on facebook. find me, and explain who you are and we can continue there. or if you prefer some other method of chat, that's fine too.

[otterrivers]

(and if we chat on facebook, it will all be through private messages which is also the chat function. so no need to be concerned about privacy. and we also only discuss our clients in a closed group at L.U. Central. we respect your privacy.)