Happy 2013! Would be deeply grateful for a guide!

[Critterfan]

Hi,

have a look and see what sense of individuality is left... is there an organism there? is there a center or cpu to this process? to whom do these desires and drives arise to?

OK - First here is the "blanket of reasoning" response:

Consciousness from the very beginning has no center, no CPU or kernel or ultimate source code. It is activity, not a self or homunculus, and its substrate is actually the distributed connectome of billions of signals on neural nets which exist and change from brain event to brain event, forming and reforming, merging and dissolving throughout the course of conscious and unconscious process. It's like self is a ghostly "quantum entanglement" that persists across neurons even after a given connection has been broken and replaced. For this reason, the ordinary impression that people have of themselves -- as a sun around which the planets of their relationships and realities revolve -- is illusory. The solar system is the entire circumstance and the sun's light and radiation pervades everything, a gentle inferno.

The self is a biosocial construct, an artifact that locates our physical presence in space and time to help us navigate reality, coordinate hand with eye, dodge bullets, find the girls to kiss, the babies to hug, and the snacks to enjoy.

Looking is key though.
What are you?

Having uploaded all that foregoing definitional and diagrammatic metaphor, what's really here is just continuous noticing that the foundation of "this" awareness is an empty space without center, boundary or objects. It cannot be seen directly. But that is not who I am, either, is it? There is no "Who" to "am" around. My sense of "person" is a misunderstanding, as you point out. Not because I don't "experience" the features of personhood or persona as I react with other self-presumed personae "out there," -- or perhaps peer-sonae? :) -- but because all these pseudo-entities exist purely as simulations, not as real "things." They are co-dependently originating.

it's not about reaching enlightenment or feeling this or that.. this is about simply What-Is .... take a peak. you won't be able to look back.

Well, I keep taking those peeks, and yes I see that nothing is there/here, and in particular nothing is there/here to "reach enlightenment," but I feel like "I" am still on the Grid, I am still within the Matrix, I am still defined. I can see how thoughts/feelings/sensations/existential data points are only unconscious transient events rather than my conscious destiny, but they still hypnotize me a little bit, or a lot.

you won't be able to look back.

If that means there will be an irrevocable change, a "no-going-back" liberation, then that hasn't happened yet. If it means that no matter how far back into the Self/No Self that I try to look, I won't find it -- then that is certainly evident.

there is no one there going through any process,
it is more accurate to say that the entire story of cosmiK and Critterfan, and seeking Enlightenment, the world, galaxies, planets all appear in/as you. you are not a person.

I understand that in the rhetorical sense, or even in the Bhagavad Gita sense but not in my bones, or not in the marrow of my bones.

See this for yourself. drop all teachings, ideas, plans... and Look.

Looking, looking looking looking looking...
Looking looking...
Looking.
<OO>

this was not written by a self to a self... there is no self.
these words are no less yours than the words the person speaks.

On one level, there is nothing more going on here than the exchange of thought bubbles between two ideational eddies in the energy swirlpool of everything.

But even knowing that, even on a gut level, has not quite liberated me. Even knowing that there is no one to be liberated hasn't made that final connection. Am I mistaken in expecting DOUBT to eventually be resolved? It certainly has lightened up. Maybe I need to go into the "Great Doubt."

Love

[cosmiK]

Hey,

Consciousness from the very beginning has no center, no CPU or kernel or ultimate source code. It is activity, not a self or homunculus, and its substrate is actually the distributed connectome of billions of signals on neural nets which exist and change from brain event to brain event, forming and reforming, merging and dissolving throughout the course of conscious and unconscious process. It's like self is a ghostly "quantum entanglement" that persists across neurons even after a given connection has been broken and replaced. For this reason, the ordinary impression that people have of themselves -- as a sun around which the planets of their relationships and realities revolve -- is illusory. The solar system is the entire circumstance and the sun's light and radiation pervades everything, a gentle inferno.

The self is a biosocial construct, an artifact that locates our physical presence in space and time to help us navigate reality, coordinate hand with eye, dodge bullets, find the girls to kiss, the babies to hug, and the snacks to enjoy.

You still only see your THOUGHTS about consciousness and you assume that is how it is. this is about looking past thoughts. there is NO self whatsoever. the self, along with everything, is in thought.

Having uploaded all that foregoing definitional and diagrammatic metaphor, what's really here is just continuous noticing that the foundation of "this" awareness is an empty space without center, boundary or objects. It cannot be seen directly. But that is not who I am, either, is it? There is no "Who" to "am" around.

That which you are, Is, and needs not to look for anything. the whole reason there is this process is to turn the attention back towards this apparent seeker, this apparent "you". "you" are the hypothesis that can be shattered upon observation. Look. is there anyone looking?

My sense of "person" is a misunderstanding, as you point out. Not because I don't "experience" the features of personhood or persona as I react with other self-presumed personae "out there," -- or perhaps peer-sonae? :) -- but because all these pseudo-entities exist purely as simulations, not as real "things." They are co-dependently originating.

this is pure theory. it is thought.
you are giving it a different spin but you are still assuming a point of individuality, a vessel, a network of components.
this is beyond thought.
such conclusions are just mind rungs to hold on to....
fall.

Well, I keep taking those peeks, and yes I see that nothing is there/here, and in particular nothing is there/here to "reach enlightenment,"

there IS something, but you are totally missing it because you are trying to think your way to enlightenment.
yes there is no-thing, no-self there, but what is left? what is there?

but I feel like "I" am still on the Grid, I am still within the Matrix, I am still defined. I can see how thoughts/feelings/sensations/existential data points are only unconscious transient events rather than my conscious destiny, but they still hypnotize me a little bit, or a lot.

This whole thing IS the hypnotism... especially the bit about there being someone that can be hypnotized. this process is about waking up... from illusion, from the story. when thought is dropped, when ideas as dropped, what is left?

If that means there will be an irrevocable change, a "no-going-back" liberation, then that hasn't happened yet. If it means that no matter how far back into the Self/No Self that I try to look, I won't find it -- then that is certainly evident.

Look.... who/what is there to be liberated???

But even knowing that, even on a gut level, has not quite liberated me. Even knowing that there is no one to be liberated hasn't made that final connection. Am I mistaken in expecting DOUBT to eventually be resolved? It certainly has lightened up. Maybe I need to go into the "Great Doubt."

You're doing great

jump off the theorizing train and hop on the Seeing/Looking train. Look directly, want the Truth more than anything... and the only way to see that is to Look. Is there a separate self that lives Life? does it exist apart from thought?

oh and i will be busy in the coming days so please excuse me if i won't be able to get back to you asap.

We did cover a lot of angles and you should definitely review all of that, and really decide to look directly.

Lots of Love.

[Critterfan]

Hi

I will be busy in the coming days

We did cover a lot of angles and you should definitely review all of that, and really decide to look directly.

Hope whatever you're doing goes well. Thanks for all the time you have taken with me (and your other correspondents). I'll get back to you with whatever news transpires when you are free again - just send a hello.

Love

[cosmiK]

Your very welcome. Please write whenever, I may just be slightly delayed responding. In addition, we have covered quite a bit, so maybe reviewing what we have gone through would be useful. Most of all focus on this apparent person :)

Lots of Love.

[Critterfan]

Hi,

I've been contemplating the "enlightening quotes" posters on the LU site and from time to time one of them will loosen my grip on the "rungs" as you called them. But I still seem to think of my self as a being clinging to that structure, as much as I would like to let go and "fall."

So I look towards the direction of the energy expressing these thoughts and impressions and see nothing -- but the subtle sense of "I am looking" is still there. The subject/object field is less of a hardwired duality and more of a dynamic polarity, and that feels right.

My "story" is getting more and more ephemeral, less drama, less solidity, but even that is a story.

Last night my wife and I went to our first Super Bowl party in years. As you know know, the game got really close after the power failure. Go Ravens! (I would have been a Redskins fan if they were in the game -- fat chance -- but Baltimore is close enough to where we lived in Northern Virginia for several decades before moving to Florida.) Won part of the pool and had a good time with the neighbors; their sweet golden retriever was a gracious and attentive hostess and didn't steal too much of the good food - just a few napkins! and Beyonce was fabulous!

Instead of being the center of the sensory landscape or socio-existential habitat of the moment and incessantly strategizing my progress through its terrain towards various objectives, it's beginning to feel more like I am a feature of that landscape, more connected with nature moment by moment, like a weather cell within a larger climate system or like a bird flying in a diving, whirling, squawking flock of companions, Ravens fans in this case.

I am going back to the posters and the insights they trigger...

Love,

[cosmiK]

Hey,

but the subtle sense of "I am looking" is still there.

when you drop the label "subtle sense of I am looking", what is there? isn't that just some more experience? what makes that experience more special than anything else? what makes it self?

My "story" is getting more and more ephemeral, less drama, less solidity, but even that is a story.

Yes exactly. Is it "your" story? :)

Last night my wife and I went to our first Super Bowl party in years. As you know know, the game got really close after the power failure. Go Ravens! (I would have been a Redskins fan if they were in the game -- fat chance -- but Baltimore is close enough to where we lived in Northern Virginia for several decades before moving to Florida.) Won part of the pool and had a good time with the neighbors; their sweet golden retriever was a gracious and attentive hostess and didn't steal too much of the good food - just a few napkins! and Beyonce was fabulous!

Fun!!! :)

Instead of being the center of the sensory landscape or socio-existential habitat of the moment and incessantly strategizing my progress through its terrain towards various objectives, it's beginning to feel more like I am a feature of that landscape, more connected with nature moment by moment, like a weather cell within a larger climate system or like a bird flying in a diving, whirling, squawking flock of companions, Ravens fans in this case.

Yes, exactly. Once it is seen how thought constantly weaves this separate individual, those thoughts loose their apparent power and substantiality. This is why the insistence on Direct Experience, to see through these thought-stories. But is anyone doing the seeing? is anyone guiding another to see? <--- are the answers to those a thought-story? or reality?

I am going back to the posters and the insights they trigger...

they have some nice insights, but please keep writing here where you are at, and I can augment the nudging that those posters can do.

Lots of Love my friend.

[Critterfan]

Hi

Given that doership or personal agency is illusory (in the sense of not being what we naively take it to be), the notion of making an effort towards liberation would seem to be problematic. There is nothing that can be done willfully -- or am I being too strictly deterministic? Perhaps it would be better to notice that the sense and intension of effort is just another experience.

The act of looking, which is cited as the key to this matter, creates a subtle sense of someone looking at something -- the subject-object polarity. It's like there is a subtle zone of separation between subject and object. There is direct experience, then there is something observing direct experience -- but that "observing" process can be directly experienced as well.

I don't really think these puzzles are fundamental matters of fact, since they can be nothing more than patterns in thought. I keep trying to "think my way to enlightenment" as you recently put it, but it's hard to avoid that in the challenge and response format of this process. However, it's a great approach -- almost exactly the Socratic method since you are drawing knowledge out of me that is already there, just help me discover it.

Love

[cosmiK]

Hey,

the notion of making an effort towards liberation would seem to be problematic. There is nothing that can be done willfully -- or am I being too strictly deterministic? Perhaps it would be better to notice that the sense and intension of effort is just another experience.

Even "making an effort" or "going with the flow" is ultimately just experience... perhaps we can say it is a different flavor. But until it is clearly seen... make all the effort to see this :) and while you are at it... notice if there is an "I" that is making this effort? :)

The act of looking, which is cited as the key to this matter, creates a subtle sense of someone looking at something -- the subject-object polarity. It's like there is a subtle zone of separation between subject and object. There is direct experience, then there is something observing direct experience -- but that "observing" process can be directly experienced as well.

Yes exactly, even the "observer" or "observing" is inseparable from the observed. So, JUST Experience.

To see this... check in direct experience if you can find an "I" (in any form, be it person, awareness, etc) that is observing?

isn't it an assumption that there has to be some separate EXPERIENCER that experiences experience?

even if there is a sense of Looking... is it personal? and is it in any way distinguishable from that which is being looked at? Are there two?

is that Looking in any way related to the first person character (aka "you")? Is it the "you" or "I" that Looks?

I don't really think these puzzles are fundamental matters of fact, since they can be nothing more than patterns in thought. I keep trying to "think my way to enlightenment" as you recently put it, but it's hard to avoid that in the challenge and response format of this process

:) Keep returning focus to the simplicity of this. Is there an "I" there that really keeps trying to think their way to the big E? See if you can find this "I".

However, it's a great approach -- almost exactly the Socratic method since you are drawing knowledge out of me that is already there, just help me discover it.

What is also really important is that assumptions about Reality, about this, are being draw out and seen for what they are, just assumptions, that cloud the clarity that is always present. The biggest assumption is this "I" that can have ideas, discover new things, and find enlightenment. Where is this "I"? Can you find it? Are you really this "I"? this self?

Stick to Direct Experience. This is the key. If you have to review it - please do :)

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012/ ... ce-de.html

With Love.

[Critterfan]

hi, cosmiK,

I hope this is not taking up too much of your time. You seem to have lots of students plus your own studies, work and family life. I feel like I am making progress but so slowly. I definitely understand what's going on and have convincing, soul-touching glimpses of no-self and the liberation it conveys, but they feel fragmentary, isolated, and (although sometimes very deep) transient.

I am not totally dismayed by this slow pace, but I would naturally wish it to take place more expeditiously. I read and review previous posts and the essays on your blog. It's possible that I am not focusing deeply enough and often enough, but deep focusing tends to take me into mystical/meditative states (which like so many seekers I cultivated for decades without being liberated) and frequent focusing is sometimes difficult because of my schedule, family life, household duties, errands, volunteer activities, etc. Being retired has not left me excessive time on my hands, which is a good thing.

I am trying to set aside several periods each day to pay attention to direct experience without going into a trance - after breakfast with a cup of tea, after working out at the gym, while driving the car, biking or hiking, and during the process of falling asleep, which often takes 20 or 30 minutes.

Is there a natural "ripening" process that some people experience in contrast to sudden and definitive awakenings? While not wanting to get academic here, I'm wondering if the process is like sometimes the gradual (or "already") enlightenment emphasis of Soto Zen (Dogen Zenji) for some people rather than the sudden experience of the Rinzai/Lin Chi school.

An attitude of gradual enlightenment, of course, could drag on unproductively for years, while expectations of sudden enlightenment conditions one to expect fireworks and bright lights -- both of which would forestall true liberation.

Love and many, many thanks

[cosmiK]

Hey :)

You are not taking too much of my time. Things are busier here, so please write as usual and I will respond as soon as I can. I apologize if I may not respond every day but I do try to.

I feel like I am making progress but so slowly. I definitely understand what's going on and have convincing, soul-touching glimpses of no-self and the liberation it conveys, but they feel fragmentary, isolated, and (although sometimes very deep) transient.

So, take this investigation further and look at those moments when there is no soul-touching glimpses of no-self. is there a self there? is there an "I"/self ever?

Again, I'll stress that this isn't about any specific experience, or even about glimpses, it is about seeing that there literally is no self there anywhere, at any time, during any experience, no matter what. You have to Look and see where there is still this binding belief that there is a self.

I am not totally dismayed by this slow pace, but I would naturally wish it to take place more expeditiously. I read and review previous posts and the essays on your blog. It's possible that I am not focusing deeply enough and often enough, but deep focusing tends to take me into mystical/meditative states (which like so many seekers I cultivated for decades without being liberated) and frequent focusing is sometimes difficult because of my schedule, family life, household duties, errands, volunteer activities, etc. Being retired has not left me excessive time on my hands, which is a good thing.

There doesn't need to be any special practice. While doing anything... just investigate... is there an "I" doing it? or is it just happening? Look at this deeply.

am trying to set aside several periods each day to pay attention to direct experience without going into a trance - after breakfast with a cup of tea, after working out at the gym, while driving the car, biking or hiking, and during the process of falling asleep, which often takes 20 or 30 minutes.

is there an "I" that drives? is there a self that eats breakfast and drinks tea? Is there a self that sleeps and wakes up? Look at direct experience. What is Reality and what is a fabrication. Burn to see this... is it true that there is no self?

Is there a natural "ripening" process that some people experience in contrast to sudden and definitive awakenings?

Is there a person there that can be awakened?

An attitude of gradual enlightenment, of course, could drag on unproductively for years, while expectations of sudden enlightenment conditions one to expect fireworks and bright lights -- both of which would forestall true liberation.

Is there an "I" there that has expectations about enlightenment?

^---- all these questions I ask you are for you to investigate yourself, in your own experience. That's the only way.

With Love.

[Critterfan]

Hey,

take this investigation further and look at those moments when there is no soul-touching glimpses of no-self. is there a self there? is there an "I"/self ever?

I can sense that so much dissatisfaction comes from trying to discover those "soul-touching" treasures, trying fill a void -- we want to feed what we assume to be the self like we feed the body, but there is nothing to feed. The seeking process works that way too -- looking for enlightenment is looking for the self, instead of recognizing there is no self -- nor even a SELF.

this isn't about any specific experience, or even about glimpses, it is about seeing that there literally is no self there anywhere, at any time, during any experience, no matter what.

Seeking is like being on a snack binge -- nibbling and munching at "spiritual experience" hoping to be satisfied, fulfilled. Even feeling/experiencing experience directly doesn't somehow lead to "enlightenment"-- it's always dissolving into labels and wishes -- and enlightenment is just another wish.

I'm just being here, even when it feels artificial and awkward. That's experience too. Just experience it. But don't expect experience to become enlightenment. That would just be another experience. Enlightenment doesn't exist as a thing or a process. It's just the moment that one stops expecting fulfillment from anything specific.

Is there a person there that can be awakened?

Any thought, image, experience, concept or metaphysical entity in my mind is nothing more than information-- it's not conscious, it's not self.

[cosmiK]

Hey,

I can sense that so much dissatisfaction comes from trying to discover those "soul-touching" treasures, trying fill a void -- we want to feed what we assume to be the self like we feed the body, but there is nothing to feed. The seeking process works that way too -- looking for enlightenment is looking for the self, instead of recognizing there is no self -- nor even a SELF.

Yes... a key insight of 'enlightenment' is that there is no such enlightenment but that which is here now... and a key insight of enlightenment is also that there is no one there that can be enlightened... LITERALLY!

Seeking is like being on a snack binge -- nibbling and munching at "spiritual experience" hoping to be satisfied, fulfilled. Even feeling/experiencing experience directly doesn't somehow lead to "enlightenment"-- it's always dissolving into labels and wishes -- and enlightenment is just another wish.

You just end up where you always were, and where you eternally will be, here, Now.

and when I say 'you', I don't mean a self, or a person.

I'm just being here, even when it feels artificial and awkward. That's experience too. Just experience it. But don't expect experience to become enlightenment. That would just be another experience. Enlightenment doesn't exist as a thing or a process. It's just the moment that one stops expecting fulfillment from anything specific.

Well, pay close attention to this "one" that can stop expecting fulfillment from anything specific. WHO/WHAT can do this? Refer to direct experience?

there is a seamless experience... we can divide it in to... seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thinking... where is there a self that can be enlightened? stop expecting? be fulfilled?

Look at the core of this wild goose chase.

does the personal self, "you", have any existence at all in reality?

Look Look and Look again. It is the Direct Way.

Any thought, image, experience, concept or metaphysical entity in my mind is nothing more than information-- it's not conscious, it's not self.

yes... and is there a "me" that has a "mind"?

is experience occurring "in a self's mind"?

deeper down the rabbit hole you go,
there is no one going down the rabbit hole,
there is no rabbit hole.

with Love.

[Critterfan]

Hi cosmiK,

seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thinking... where is there a self that can be enlightened? stop expecting? be fulfilled?

I'm still here...

Sort of at a standstill, but in a good way -- as in "standing still." This "process" is a slow unfolding, sometimes with little leaps, like yesterday when I felt a complete sense of release from my "story."

I'm living in the moment. There is still a me, but not very pushy. It's like I don't have a lot to say. Also I'm working on taxes :<

there is no one there that can be enlightened... LITERALLY!

Is there a tax break in there somewhere?

You just end up where you always were, and where you eternally will be, here, Now.

It's sounds like it will be very nice

very nice indeed. ; )

Love

[Critterfan]

Hi CosmiK,

Just reporting in....

More and more the feelings of "being a self" serve purely to establish location and perspective naturally and harmoniously in existence, space, time, social interaction, task completion (e.g., chopping wood, carrying water), the environment, etc.

I am noticing that every "personal" instance of doubt, psychological discomfort, perplexity or non-material suffering hinges upon the unexamined fiction of the separate and substantial self. For example, Quixotic and painfully determined efforts to feel "enlightened" are futile (and unnecessary) because each case, if viewed directly and honestly, is about seeking how "my self" can be satisfied to feel perfectly and unalterably great forever.

But if it is seen that there is already no self to experience anything (as a separate point of view), compassion, sympathetic joy, loving kindness arise effortlessly.

From time to time, the Great Circumstance, Original Nature, or what you have referred to as "This," is clear but peripheral, vanishing only when "I try" to look at it directly (in other words, when I try to seize it for "my own").

Your technical assistance has helped free me of innumerable hindrances, burdens, unskillful habits, and irritations. I'm still here, I still see myself in the Looking Glass, but like the disappearing Cheshire Cat, gradually I am fading into nothing more than a smile.... :)

Namaste

[cosmiK]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay my friend. Things have been a little crazy here, and i've been really sick.

More and more the feelings of "being a self" serve purely to establish location and perspective naturally and harmoniously in existence, space, time, social interaction, task completion (e.g., chopping wood, carrying water), the environment, etc.

Right... all of this happens like a symphony... but is there a separate "I" in any of this? does an "I" chop wood and carry water? or does chopping wood and carrying water just happen. look deeply at daily happenings and activities... is there an "I" experiencing these happenings? is there an "I" that does any activities? keep going back to this simple insight.

I am noticing that every "personal" instance of doubt, psychological discomfort, perplexity or non-material suffering hinges upon the unexamined fiction of the separate and substantial self. For example, Quixotic and painfully determined efforts to feel "enlightened" are futile (and unnecessary) because each case, if viewed directly and honestly, is about seeking how "my self" can be satisfied to feel perfectly and unalterably great forever.

right... and when you look for this "I" that can be enlightened or satisfied... is it there? satisfaction show up? discomfort show up? giddiness shows up? many flavors of Life show up... but is there an actual "I" there anywhere???

and are any of those actually personal ??? if so where is this substantial self/person/"I"? keep tracing these self-referencing thought loops and seeing through them.

But if it is seen that there is already no self to experience anything (as a separate point of view), compassion, sympathetic joy, loving kindness arise effortlessly.

right... no self is a pointer the lack of an inherent separate entity or individual or experiencer or thinker or doer... bring these pointers with you in to your direct experience and see this for yourself.

From time to time, the Great Circumstance, Original Nature, or what you have referred to as "This," is clear but peripheral, vanishing only when "I try" to look at it directly (in other words, when I try to seize it for "my own").

no there is never a vanishing. there is just a judgement or conclusion about a specific type of experience as "this" and others as "not this", and then there is an identity to find the "this" and move away from "not this".

what is important to see is that whatever is here, IS IT.

then look and see if there is an "I" in that?

look and see if there is an "I" that can seize it for itself? how does that work? go over that over and over again and see how it works. Is there any reality to an "I" that can do this?

Your technical assistance has helped free me of innumerable hindrances, burdens, unskillful habits, and irritations. I'm still here, I still see myself in the Looking Glass, but like the disappearing Cheshire Cat, gradually I am fading into nothing more than a smile.... :)

I'm still here...

Sort of at a standstill, but in a good way -- as in "standing still." This "process" is a slow unfolding, sometimes with little leaps, like yesterday when I felt a complete sense of release from my "story."

good... take it a step further... is there really a process going on here? who exactly dissappears? is there an ACTUAL and INHERENT "I" that that was there before and then suddenly fades away? is there an actual process going on here? for WHO/WHAT?

stay focused on this simple insight my friend - it's the most important one.


~~

there is no one there that can be enlightened... LITERALLY!

Is there a tax break in there somewhere?

Yes!!! :)

You just end up where you always were, and where you eternally will be, here, Now.

It's sounds like it will be very nice

very nice indeed. ; )

it is what it is, and there is no "I" in that.

with Love.