Ever ready to wake up! Would really appreciate some help

[Chuang]

I typed a post but it was gone arghh.

Anyways! Vivi I think I saw it clearly already! Decisions and actions happens just like that. They happen naturally without anybody or anyone controlling. Those are natural actions. Brain labelling is also a natural action. But the brain keeps stamping the label "I" on everything so I thought that there was a self! But since the label is empty, there is no self so nope, no one is controlling anything.

Everything is happening naturally and everything moves in a beautiful rhythm that unfolds itself in every present moment. So nope. All along there is no self. Just actions/feelings + the brain labelling. What an illusion!!

[dreamer]

Hi Chuang

YES what an illusion :D

Tell me now how do you experience body? What is the body? Is it your body or a body? is it there? How? What? When?

:) Vivi

[Chuang]

Tell me now how do you experience body? What is the body? Is it your body or a body? is it there? How? What? When?

Erm, honestly i don't know. The body seems to be a very close and the most direct experience.
The body is a place for all the emotions/thoughts/physical sensations to happen. Seems like a receptive agent.
It's of course not my body! I do not have ownership of anything. It is 100% automatic and I do not and cannot control it. So it's just a body.
It seems to be there because it feels solid and.. Real?
For example, when the fingers touches parts of the body it feels like there's the 'touching sense' + 'being touched' sense. But when the fingers touches other things, let's say the pillow, there is only the 'touching sense' so the body should be there.
When?
It was given when my mom gives birth to this body. And it's like, this body is the center point for all experiences :o

[dreamer]

Good Chuang

Now look again.

Of course it is not your body....what about the sense of being touched then? That 'sense of being touched'....what is it?

When thoughts shows up in DE, let then be, do not believe them, keep looking despite the thoughts.

Greetings Vivi

[Chuang]

Hi Vivi,

I am not too sure what is there to look. But I noticed one thing about my body while doing DE. That is, the parts that aren't in contact with anything feel like they don't exist when I have my eyes closed. That seem like the only thing that I'm able to get.

[dreamer]

hello...are you there Chuang?

[Chuang]

No, Chuang is not here. No one is hahaha
Yes Vivi?

[dreamer]

Oh Chuang - seemed I was not there too!

Ok, that is something! The parts of the body that are not in contact with anything feels to not exist with eyes closed!

Do it again, can you find any borders between body and not body, when 'hand' is on 'table', when 'sitting' in 'chair'

Where does 'hand' stop and 'table' begin?
Do you experience 'sitting'? Can you feel 'chair'?

Is it thoughts telling you so?

Greetings Vivi

[Chuang]

HAHAHA VIVI!

I tried, and I found out that there isn't any border! Or should I say that both things merged into one sensation?
Yep, the mind keep labeling EVERYTHING. It tells me that there's separation but if I concentrate only on the sensation (without sight) No, everything is one. OH I just realised that real separation is only caused by the mind. When things are without labels, when they just are, there seem to be no real saparation!!

[dreamer]

Hahaha!!! Great Chuang

Let me know if you feel ready to answer the final questions

Happy day/evening
Vivi

[Chuang]

Omg how do you know that I have seen it already? ( ; ~ ; )

OMG THANK YOU VIVI AND EVERYONE IN LU!!!!!!
I am so happy tears are coming up already T~T
So all those sufferings are caused by the mind labeling everything! Couldn't believe that it's all the mind game.
Hehehehehe.
I think I will let things settle abit first before answering.
Thank you thank you! <3

[dreamer]

Haha Chuang

Yes, I wonder how I would now :D

Let it settle and keep posting everyday....just let me know when you are ready.

:)

[Chuang]

Hi Vivi,

All the way until yesterday night, there was peace and heightened awareness.
Then when I woke up this morning, there is a very heavy feeling in the chest. Something like deep sadness. But I tried my best to just let it be and observe it. Identifification with the mind is still there when I'm around people, but the grip of fear feels lessened. Anxiety is still there but it has been better. At least there are some peaceful moments in between. But the largest difference is that, it doesn't feel as personal as before. Still feeling kind of restricted and uncomfortable when around people, but at least there is improvement!

Thanks for being here anyway Vivi. Much gratitude!

[Chuang]

" Don't come near me,
I am scared that I could not live up to your expectations
I'm afraid that you would know how flawed I am.
Don't talk to me, I don't want to talk to you. Because when I don't talk, I would not make mistake and I will still be perfect. When you talk to me, there's a lot of resistance. Afraid, afraid that you will look down on me and realised that I could not hold up a proper conversation. That I'm weird that I'm not perfect. Next time, when I have liberation, I will talk to you, and I will impress you by how natural I am. And we will have such a happy conversation that noone is hurt. Next time!

So, the reason why I do not dare to talk to others, or let myself be, is because I am VERY afraid of people judging me. And that's because I keep judging other people. So the solution? Is to drop all judgements. To not always believe your thoughts. Take it as references but not too seriously.

Away from the identification of mind. Just be aware of the thoughts. Watch them.

When there are no thoughts, labels, concepts, ideas, everything just is. The thoughtless realm. "

So those were the thoughts that flew through my mind just now when I saw a friend at the busstop while I just pretended not to see her. Woah you know, those thoughts went through so fast that I didn't even realised all these while, there has always been such thoughts! No wonder the suffering of anxiety. The ego is so afraid.

All the ego characteristics were present there.
-future thinking
-dwelling in thoughts for security (that's why not talking)
-judgements
-feeling of lack/incomplete

And there's this last bit of intense fear, anxiety and identification within me. And I would like to write about it here.
I didn't know that I have identified so deeply with one friend of mine. I think that if I'm with her, people will think of me as popular, as perfect as awesome because I will be classified in the same category as her. My mind has labelled her as perfect, so everything she does, I will think of her as perfect. So when I "unknowingly" took up some of her characteristics and display them, I have this ego-inflation. But when I notice something that I don't have in me. I feel inadequate, lacking, like a piece of shit, no self esteem at all. A part of me loves her but another part of me hates her, hates her to the core. Im also very unnatural infront of her because im afraid of being judged by her also. Just a little bit of disagreement from her, it would render myself as worthless. To be rejected by your idea of perfection, what's more ego bruising than that! Then when I notice my thoughts, I thought of how bad a person I must be, then I hate myself even more. And the vicious cycle just go on and on. And I don't want to show her how much I love and like her too. Because showing that will make me "lose face/lose my pride/my ego" So I treated her very coldly. So she wouldnt know how much I "worship" her.

And I get jealous too. I'm jealous of how natural she is, how humorous she is, how outgoing she is, how smart and sharp minded she is, how child-like she is, how confident she is. Basically just how she is everything I want to be but could not be. Perhaps all those are traits that I have it in myself but couldn't display. That's why seeing her irks me. Because it reminded me of how good I can actually be. Perhaps all those traits that I see in her are there in my best self. That's why the love-hate relationship. Because I see myself in her.

And somehow, I know that we could be such great friends. I know that we will be those best friends for life kind of thing. But there is alot of fear for going into that. And I guess that by being my best self means the death of ego. The death of "me" that's why I am so afraid. So so afraid. But now that I have brought that dark secret to light, much of the grievance toward her are dissipating already.

Then there is still a little grievance left. It's about this guy friend also. I think that time the most awkward train ride back home together had been deeply entrenched in my mind/heart. That we didn't talk for the whole train ride and the memory had been so painful that I didn't dare to face it again. And now I'm bringing it to light. I hate him, hate him so much for making me feel like I'm worthless and that I am such a bad person for making things so awkward. I hate how he smiled all happy to see me, but I just have to ruin it by making the whole atmosphere so awkward. I hate myself for being so awkward. For making things so awkward all the time. For hurting people with my awkwardness. And last but not least, I hate myself the most. I hate myself for trying so hard to maintain myself. To not realise that I am not there at all. To waste so much energy to make myself believe that I exist when I actually don't. To keep feeding the lie to myself. When I actually know that I'm actually nothing at all, that I'm only something being covered by layers of lies lies and lies. To prevent myself from seeing the truth. To understand that I do not exist at all. It's time for me to go. I have served my purpose. Goodbye and never to see you again!

Sorry for such a long rubbishy post. The ego seems to want everything to be out there, in the light. Sorry!
Okay, Vivi, I am ready for the final questions. Shoot it! ;)

[dreamer]

Dear Chuang

Don't be sorry. It is such a good job done here :)

Final questions, here they come :) First 5:

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?




2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.




3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.




4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it. 




5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?


Take your time and answer one by one.

Greetings Vivi