Wondering if Metta777 can help for round 2 seeing?

[Metta777]

Hi Crow,

I looked at the " Thoughts are real, but the content is not" thought again.

All thoughts just arise and are clearly subjective, owing to the persons programming or experience. If your Mom taught you as a child that all dogs were dangerous and would bite you, then that thought would arise. Is it true, no, but you would be convinced of the truth of it. So what is real??? If as a child there was the thought there is a monster under my bed, you would attach the emotion of fear to that thought and energy would be given to it. The heart speeds up when there is fear, the chemicals change in your body, so you are ready to fight or run or scream. but there is no real monster, it is just a thought. It is also just a thought that the thought is real and true. Just a thought that you are a solid object, but science knows that we are water and mostly air with energy running through it.
Every decision you think you make was already made, based on the stimuli, events occurring, stimulus /response/activation.
Isn't the clean,clear awareness, free of programming like a computer really you? Before all the stuff you were made to learn, forced to learn, told to do, told to think. Again ask where is the true awareness, is it in thoughts that the illusionary that I was told to think or just experiencing, my heart beat, touching someone, eating, running, laughing, crying, acting, not acting, smelling perfume, tasting pizza. What gives vibrance and freedom and creativity to life? Programming??

There is fear in not abiding by the content of thought.

The fear, where is it hiding, behind thoughts of if the truth is seen there might be failure? What is the real fear?? If I get this then my life has to move on? Really look, there will still be mind, existence, acting, doing all the things that are done now. But if I get this then I won't have an excuse to avoid challenges in my life? Is there really anything at all to fear?

Fear of failure? Everyone fails at something, so what? Then they get up and find a new purpose and meaning in their life.

Love, Metta

[Crow]

Metta. Thank you for this honesty. Need some time to look deep at the fear. It's just emotion, but it is barbed onto a thought or thoughts. Time to look at the real fear. Yet all the fear will be attached to stories. Stories that are warped. Not sure if this is key, but it's time for a deep honest look and reveal to you. Be back soon. Goodness thank you.

[Metta777]

Okay Crow, Whatever you need, :-) Yeah, those stories sure can mess with the head. Especially when they aren't even ours, most fears arise from stuff others have told us too. Luv, Metta

[Crow]

Happy Saturday Metta. Wanted to talk about the fear. Fear is my dearest and oldest friend. It seems like a protector to me. It has manifested itself in thousands of different ways. It sees it's days numbered and is pissed. Fear is just an emotion.
Thank you for your wisdom. You said could the fear be that " if I get this then my life has to move on"? Looking at this it is true. The story of my unique "struggle" fear, self pity, depression, overcoming addiction, making it as an actor, is a story made of thoughts and labels that "I" have worked hard to protect and project. to Awaken means saying goodbye to this construct. Yet it is the mind that has made this story.
There is fear that this mind (which has an incredible tolerance for mental pain) could go crazy fighting to SEE the truth. There is also the fear of " what happens if there is no Awakeing"? To know the truth and be split down the middle is suffering. Saw a quote the other day. " We are afraid of Enlightenment so we are on the spiritual search in order to postpone Enlightenment". Life is happening and there is relief in understanding (even if just intellectually) that there really is no control.

So..just wound up and tired of the fight. Just want to the story to drop, no fighting. Just want the construct to be unplugged.

So more looking.

This is a long one. Kinda dramatic too truly ;)
Thanks Metta, much love.

[Metta777]

Hi Crow,

Fear is a friend in a way and if you just sit with it, there will be something out of it that comes clear.

So..just wound up and tired of the fight. Just want to the story to drop, no fighting.

The fighting is just a mind story too, there is nothing to fight, except a illusionary mental construct, who is there to fight , no " I ", just a false self of ego.
Ahhh, fighting addiction, perfect. Then you know the concept of letting go and trusting a higher power. The awareness is your higher power. Life happens and awareness lets it flow through. There is nothing to lose to trust that, what can happen except more life. :-) My favorite saying, " this too shall pass." It does, always, it is impossible for something in life to remain the same. It is only a ghost that is being fought, in the machine. Can you let go of the old self ? Write it out, the whole mind story, look at it and then when you are ready, have a celebration and burn it. Burn baby burn!! All the labels, the fears, the self critic, all of it. The past is gone, it won't be back, the future is not here yet. There is a new moment of awareness, feeling, consciousness and experience happening. Life is that. It is joyful! Love, Metta

[Crow]

Dear Metta. Sorry I missed you the other day. I am going to write the Burn List. It should be copious. In the mean time I've also re-read all of our posts. So there has been some more insight into just being. No I to speak of. Thoughts seem quieter. Annoying thought of " what happens if there's an emergency?! You'll fall out of no "I" and be yourself again" keeps floating by. Underneath the thoughts there is this uhm...knowing..(doesn't seem like the right word) that all of these thoughts and emotions etc are all apart of Life Living and they are allowed at the dinner table too.
Also with there has been some seeing about this body. "Body" is just a word. So is arm, leg, head, neck etc. All of these are labels. All the names of sensations are labels too. Being " Full " is a sensation in the body, but " Full " just points to a sensation and is not really true in reality. This is the weird part. Because the word "Body" is just a label, then the body seems to not really be there in a way. It's for sure there in reality, but it has no driver, owner, or separateness from Living. In a way it is the same as a "chair", " rocking horse" , etc., in the field of Awareness. Is it just a hilarious manifestation of Life Living? Weird, beautiful design if that is true.
There have been more states again, if that's what they are. Yesterday the light got turned on again. Just looking around the room and everything clicked. All things were conscious life living. Not the best words, but that's all there is. Then non stop laughter and then the thought, "If you think this is it, then it can't be it " ( Read that somewhere )then it was like the veil of me settled back down and all went separate again. So damn strange. Oh well...It was just a thought right?

Metta there seems to be way less fear, easy breathing, enjoying looking at stuff happen right in the moment. Moving on. Deep thanks. Crow

[Metta777]

Dear Crow,

I look forward to hearing about your celebration of completing the burn list. Hopefully there is a place where you can yell, laugh, sing, holler, jump up and down or do whatever is needed to be free of the false illusion of past. I did a burn myself in the woods, brought a drum, found a power place , sat on the Earth and connected with her. Then did a little ceremony, put rocks in a circle , then a smaller circle for the burn list. Sang,played the drums, connected with the I AM and Mother Earth. Burning the false self, the ego and looking through to freedom.

You'll fall out of no "I" and be yourself again" keeps floating by.

,,

Just a thought again, expressing doubt, it's okay, just notice and let it pass. No I there to put energy into it.

Because the word "Body" is just a label, then the body seems to not really be there in a way. It's for sure there in reality,

The body is there, but it is not separate from all that is. There will still be mind stories, dreams, sensations, feelings, emotions, but it is seen for what it is a wonderful story of the mind. Life goes on, everything goes on and awareness is there to enjoy.

"If you think this is it, then it can't be it " ( Read that somewhere )then it was like the veil of me settled back down and all went separate again. So damn strange. Oh well...It was just a thought right?

Yep, just another thought. Challenge them , when you get a thought, write it down when you have time, then see if it's true. Put the thought and then write your challenge to it. It can't be true because.........Your Very Welcome, Love, Metta

[Crow]

Metta. Hi there. I've been very busy. Forgive the late response. Not sure what to say. It seems that my seeing is based on momentum. It feels like it's been lost due to "me". Really haven't experienced a shift in perception. There is an idea that life is living itself under thought etc. Yet there is also an awareness that there is still consciousness happening through a filter of "me". It is strange that impersonal awareness can feel so personal. Is that it? Is that personal feeling awareness who "I" really am or should the true awareness that " I Am " feel free of that? If this moment is perfect then everything that is happening, including this confusion or struggle is to be? It could not be any other way. It doesn't make sense that seeing through the i is clear, yet an intellectual understanding is all that is happening. This mind! Still a separate Crow here Metta.

[Metta777]

Hi Crow, I think the momentum is important, but I think there might be a misperception as to what is supposed to happen. the mind stories will always be there, in fact you need them to function in society. It is not the goal to get rid of them, the objective is to see through them. Sometimes people are not ready, sometimes it is a gradual process and sometimes it hits like a lightening bolt, there is no one way to the goal.

I use the word I for the sake of communication as there is no Metta either, I am just an appearance in you. If awareness is not able to be separated, what would that mean ? Who are you struggling with to see? It is either seen or not, there is no struggle is there? No I, no struggle. feelings are not facts, You are the window, emotions, feelings and perceptions blow through you like wind through the window. You can't see them, the only way you know is direct experience of the wind on your skin or you see the curtains moving.

there is also an awareness that there is still consciousness happening through a filter of "me"

Yes, through the illusion of a you. Look behind the stories, look behind the thoughts. When you see the moon reflected in the water, is it the real moon? Or just a reflection? You are not thinking my heart must beat, my lungs must work, what is happening? Warmly, Metta

[Crow]

Hello Metta, thank you.

If awareness is not able to be separated, what would that mean ?

It would mean that everything is one. Is this what it means when enlightened ones say " They are the Mountain"? When all labels, and perceptions are seen through, for what they are, then all that is left are things in consciousness as one Life?

Who are you struggling with to see? It is either seen or not, there is no struggle is there?

Right. It is not seen then.

Yes, through the illusion of a you. Look behind the stories, look behind the thoughts.

All that is there is still life full of action. Capacity is a word that is used.

When you see the moon reflected in the water, is it the real moon? Or just a reflection?

So in a sense I am looking and believing that the reflection or illusion of me is real when all that needs to happen is to look away from the pond or ghost personality and stare at the real moon. Awareness?

You are not thinking my heart must beat, my lungs must work, what is happening?

Life is living. The body moves on it's own. Consciousness before thought happens and choices are made. Then the mind labels, tries to own, and attach emotions to life. It seems so strange to be this open capacity, this vast awareness and then such goofy thoughts arising from there. So in a way the thoughts are who "I" am in a sense too, because they are alive in awareness, but the ideas in them are not real because they are always About the real and never real itself.

Peace Metta. Crow

[Metta777]

Hello Crow,

It would mean that everything is one.

Yes, it does, so if that is the case how can there be an I ?

Who are you struggling with to see?

There is no struggle because there is no one to struggle with. Unless you are struggling with the illusion of yourself.

All that is there is still life full of action. Capacity is a word that is used.

Who has the capacity?

So in a sense I am looking and believing that the reflection or illusion of me is real when all that needs to happen is to look away from the pond or ghost personality and stare at the real moon. Awareness?

Something animates you, what ? When you leave the body behind, what leaves? Is the puppet the same as the one who pulls the strings. Yes, experience life directly, not through 100's of thoughts. Thoughts are secondary, just like the reflection is secondary to the actual moon.

Life is living. The body moves on it's own. Consciousness before thought happens and choices are made.

Awareness is always there ,even without thought. Everything is automatic, breathing, thinking, heart beating, etc. If you were thought then when not thinking there would be no you? correct? Thought are temporary, they can't be seen and disappear. They are not alive. Can a thought think itself, does it continue to exist?
Choices are based on programming and experience automatically, there is no doer or choice making. Your brain makes a choice then afterward you become aware of it. How can you be making it then? Thoughts an ideas are the same thing, there is no separation.

but the ideas in them are not real because they are always About the real and never real itself.

There is nothing contained in a thought, it just is and then isn't. Yes, thoughts are based on programming and experience, but are second hand. Reality is Direct Experience of living, no intellect is necessary. Is it possible to experience complete stillness, no thought, just being, just sitting, or just walking. No thought, just being. Warmly, Metta

[Crow]

Hello Crow,

Yes, it does, so if that is the case how can there be an I ?

If Awareness can't be separated then that means everything is one. If everything is one then there can be no "I" because that would be two, Awareness and a separate self. That makes so much sense. Didn't see this before.

There is no struggle because there is no one to struggle with. Unless you are struggling with the illusion of yourself.

Yes. That is where the struggle is. The illusion still seems so real, like a hologram. There is so much proof in present experience that it is nothing but an illusion and yet there is still this struggle. There is nothing physical that can be pointed to as an "I". Thoughts are only About reality never Reality now. Thoughts about Crow come and go like you say, and if they leave then why don't I cease to exist when thoughts disappear? I don't cease to exist because there is no separate self.

All that is there is still life full of action. Capacity is a word that is used.

Who has the capacity?

It isn't owned by a me or anything. It just is.

Something animates you, what ?

Just life.

When you leave the body behind, what leaves?

Energy leaves the body. Life doesn't stop. It has no opposite. Consciousness remains or just life? They are the same thing though. There can't be existence without consciousness. Again they are the same.

Lost the quote, but the question was " Are the puppet and the one pulling the strings the same"?
All life. All the same. All moving on it's own.

Life is living. The body moves on it's own. Consciousness before thought happens and choices are made.

Awareness is always there ,even without thought. Everything is automatic, breathing, thinking, heart beating, etc. If you were thought then when not thinking there would be no you? correct?

Love this. " If you were thought then when not thinking there would be no you ". This is correct.

Thought are temporary, they can't be seen and disappear. They are not alive.

This one confuses me. Thoughts are real. If they exist then they must be alive. Need some help Seeing this one Metta.

Can a thought think itself, does it continue to exist?

Thoughts arise on their own. A thought is just a thought and cannot think. It seems to have a short life and then disappears.

Choices are based on programming and experience automatically, there is no doer or choice making. Your brain makes a choice then afterward you become aware of it. How can you be making it then?

Damnit! Can't suss this out. I understand that the brain makes a choice and then the awareness of that choice shows up later. Who am I in this process? I am before the awareness happens?

but the ideas in them are not real because they are always About the real and never real itself.

There is nothing contained in a thought, it just is and then isn't.

In Direct Experience there is no substance to a thought? In Direct Ex. I cannot hear, taste, touch, smell, or see a thought. Is this what you mean when you are talking about "nothing contained in a thought"?

Reality is Direct Experience of living, no intellect is necessary. Is it possible to experience complete stillness, no thought, just being, just sitting, or just walking. No thought, just being.

Just being. That is me :>)

Thank you Metta. So much deep insight here. Love.

[Metta777]

Hello Crow,

Yes. That is where the struggle is. The illusion still seems so real, like a hologram. There is so much proof in present experience that it is nothing but an illusion and yet there is still this struggle.

The struggle is just a new mind story, only a thought or belief.

Energy leaves the body. Life doesn't stop. It has no opposite.

Energy is always there. There is no person to die as awareness is all one. Life goes on living. Energy can only transform not end. You are the eagles, the mountains, the sun, the moon, the ocean, the birds singing, the Universe.
All manifesting as life living itself.

Damnit! Can't suss this out. I understand that the brain makes a choice and then the awareness of that choice shows up later. Who am I in this process? I am before the awareness happens?

Can a thought think about itself? Does a thought, feel, smell , taste or have any direct experience of itself. It just arises and is gone. Illusion also, you can hallucinate or get drunk and think you see a pink elephant, is it real? Who is there to be an I ? Energy shifting and transforming. Thoughts arise from pre-programming like a computer, it calculates and makes the best decision, no identity there or I, is there?

[quoteIn Direct Experience there is no substance to a thought? In Direct Ex. I cannot hear, taste, touch, smell, or see a thought. Is this what you mean when you are talking about "nothing contained in a thought"? quote]

Yes.


Just being everything, just life living, joy, creative energy, Be here Now! Nothing more.

Love, metta

[Metta777]

Just being,

Love, Metta or Crow, :-)

[Crow]

Metta. So there was a quote. " I am, am is". This cut into thinking. Today while walking there was this knowing. The mind cannot explain it. There are the definitions like " we are Awareness " or " Life living itself " or" Consciousness Conscious of itself". Could it be simpler? Suddenly without mind or thought a knowing that the very fact of existence was me. It felt so utterly lacking in concepts. Laughter. The ego rushed in fast afterward and yelled " You think you know what this is and because your thinking it, it is not the thing"! Just a thought that left as soon as it came.

One of the parts that is troubling still is consciousness itself. Consciousness just is. life. I am, so I am consciousness. I am life. That's all I am. That's all anything is that is in the field of awareness is. It's one no-thing creating. I'm not writing this. So...Not sure what this is. Simple, silent yet bursting with so many different forms? I opened your post and just laughed! "Just Being". No self. This does not "feel" like other states that have happened. Cautious. Looking. "hand" on the keyboard. mind is sooooooooo still. Now. Love Crow.