Thank you.
No Doubts.
For the time being no questions.
requesting jowate
Re: requesting jowate
I look forward to your questions.
Re: requesting jowate
Here are the 'confirmation' questions - take your time and respond to these as fully / clearly as possible. You can post the responses all together, or send them bit by bit, it's up to you. These will help other LU guides to evaluate whether you've 'gone thru the gate' and any questions they ask, I'll pass on to you.
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Is there any self or thing that is separate from everything else?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
3) How does it feel to see through this? describe in detail.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, really made you look? Was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?
7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience? Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?
8) What did you experience at the moment you woke up from the self-view?
9) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Is there any self or thing that is separate from everything else?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
3) How does it feel to see through this? describe in detail.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, really made you look? Was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?
7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience? Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?
8) What did you experience at the moment you woke up from the self-view?
9) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening
Re: requesting jowate
1/ Q...Is there a 'me',at all, anywhere,in any way,shape or form?
A....No there is no me,as the experience rolls on,'I' imagine looking as an observer (but even that is just a passing thought )...something rolls unfolds etc,interconnectedness is all there is.As 'I' said in the earlier dialouge "life is do-ing 'me' ". It's not at all easy to say in words whats actually going on, it's as if emptyness opens within a sort of tactile felt sense. Formless ? More questions present themselves ...'I' swallow as emotions merge...something continues sense impressions continue to present in the Mind.
Was there ever? No.
Is there any self or thing that is seperate from anything else ? No. Total interconnectedness , scary thought !
A....No there is no me,as the experience rolls on,'I' imagine looking as an observer (but even that is just a passing thought )...something rolls unfolds etc,interconnectedness is all there is.As 'I' said in the earlier dialouge "life is do-ing 'me' ". It's not at all easy to say in words whats actually going on, it's as if emptyness opens within a sort of tactile felt sense. Formless ? More questions present themselves ...'I' swallow as emotions merge...something continues sense impressions continue to present in the Mind.
Was there ever? No.
Is there any self or thing that is seperate from anything else ? No. Total interconnectedness , scary thought !
Re: requesting jowate
2/ Q...Explain in detail what the illusion of seperate self is, when it starts and how it works ?
A...The illusion of seperate self is actually a delusion , it starts with a thought identifying something as out-there perhaps a hat on a head or some such thing. it is the mind labeling sense impressions trying to make sense of the chaos of ongoing life. It works sort of but life always surprises the small planning mind. In a similar way the illusion of time is another way the mind tries to make sense of life , puts it in a framework where 'we' nogociate the rapids in our small cannoe tossed as always by events unfolding. So the illusion starts in thought labelling wanting a map to steer a compass to guide in the mist, lost ...breathing existing fear ridden, awash in the great sea of feelings.
A...The illusion of seperate self is actually a delusion , it starts with a thought identifying something as out-there perhaps a hat on a head or some such thing. it is the mind labeling sense impressions trying to make sense of the chaos of ongoing life. It works sort of but life always surprises the small planning mind. In a similar way the illusion of time is another way the mind tries to make sense of life , puts it in a framework where 'we' nogociate the rapids in our small cannoe tossed as always by events unfolding. So the illusion starts in thought labelling wanting a map to steer a compass to guide in the mist, lost ...breathing existing fear ridden, awash in the great sea of feelings.
Re: requesting jowate
3/Q...How does it feel to see through this ? Describe in detail.
A...On first glimpe of no-self the immediate sense was relief release and laughter. An overwhelming sense of peace at last ! It's SO simple , brings a smile to the lips.
As the weeks have rolled on , it's been one of amazment and at times an inability to settle to anything, restless a superfuity of energy. Waking in the middle of the night amazed and energised unable to sleep. At times very emotional, watching the news and bursting into tears at the sheer beauty of people as they live thier lifes.
The mind still tries to plan but the ongoing present is so real and life is so total that each breath pulls the attention down into the body. I'm reminded of similies from the Buddha, like putting down a heavy load or being freed from debt. The ongoing experience for 'me' is full of stong waves of bliss, priti etc. Although at times interfacing with negative emotion or confusion coming as it were from without (If I can even use that expression now-adays!) is a wee bit strange. As I continue reflecting it's also a newfound clarity and spontainuity like dancing through life the mind super-fast , reading situations in a millisecond.
A...On first glimpe of no-self the immediate sense was relief release and laughter. An overwhelming sense of peace at last ! It's SO simple , brings a smile to the lips.
As the weeks have rolled on , it's been one of amazment and at times an inability to settle to anything, restless a superfuity of energy. Waking in the middle of the night amazed and energised unable to sleep. At times very emotional, watching the news and bursting into tears at the sheer beauty of people as they live thier lifes.
The mind still tries to plan but the ongoing present is so real and life is so total that each breath pulls the attention down into the body. I'm reminded of similies from the Buddha, like putting down a heavy load or being freed from debt. The ongoing experience for 'me' is full of stong waves of bliss, priti etc. Although at times interfacing with negative emotion or confusion coming as it were from without (If I can even use that expression now-adays!) is a wee bit strange. As I continue reflecting it's also a newfound clarity and spontainuity like dancing through life the mind super-fast , reading situations in a millisecond.
Re: requesting jowate
4/Q...how would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?
A...So the first point is, that it is an illusion.Our mind takes for granted the assumption that because things are apparently 'out there' that we are seperate, 'in here' as it were. The mind also labels expierience as 'mine' as opposed to yours. On investigating more closeley we start to see 'mind moments' , also along with this perception of things changing we start to realise that apart from our mind labeling 'things' ,behind the immediate sense impressions (Including thoughts0, lies a profound habit of believing that 'we actually exist, fixed, unchangeing but that is not true we are not fixed in any way. In connection with that no-one else is in any way 'fixed. Not only that but we do not exist in that assumed way. There is no-self it is a complete illusion a faulse belief or view. Ther is no self doing acts, no doer of the deed. There never was ! The illusion of a seperate self is based on fear, a profound insecurity in the face of a much larger on going shadow show of life. That profound confusion/illusion underpins all the assumptions we try to stick on ever changing experience.Its like waking up from a dream in fact it is waking up for real.
A...So the first point is, that it is an illusion.Our mind takes for granted the assumption that because things are apparently 'out there' that we are seperate, 'in here' as it were. The mind also labels expierience as 'mine' as opposed to yours. On investigating more closeley we start to see 'mind moments' , also along with this perception of things changing we start to realise that apart from our mind labeling 'things' ,behind the immediate sense impressions (Including thoughts0, lies a profound habit of believing that 'we actually exist, fixed, unchangeing but that is not true we are not fixed in any way. In connection with that no-one else is in any way 'fixed. Not only that but we do not exist in that assumed way. There is no-self it is a complete illusion a faulse belief or view. Ther is no self doing acts, no doer of the deed. There never was ! The illusion of a seperate self is based on fear, a profound insecurity in the face of a much larger on going shadow show of life. That profound confusion/illusion underpins all the assumptions we try to stick on ever changing experience.Its like waking up from a dream in fact it is waking up for real.
Re: requesting jowate
5/Q...what was the last bit that pushed you over, really made you look? Was there a specific moment when seeing happened?
A...It was when 'I' was getting guided by Jowate. On investigating no-self while sitting in the chair at home it suddenly dawned on me the truth of no-self. So it was fairly sudden. I really saw it, it is so simple & it made me laugh. I immediatly phoned a friend who's 'Blue' and shared my experience. I simply saw through the illusion of self. At the time it didn't seem such a big deal. So it was the profound questioning from Jowate the made me really look at what was going on.
A...It was when 'I' was getting guided by Jowate. On investigating no-self while sitting in the chair at home it suddenly dawned on me the truth of no-self. So it was fairly sudden. I really saw it, it is so simple & it made me laugh. I immediatly phoned a friend who's 'Blue' and shared my experience. I simply saw through the illusion of self. At the time it didn't seem such a big deal. So it was the profound questioning from Jowate the made me really look at what was going on.
Re: requesting jowate
6/ Q... When you say "I" what are you refering to ?
A... Now that's a good question ! It's not so easy to say.
'I' am no longer here !
'I' is an illusion that I used to believe !
'I' no longer applies ...gone beyond, although 'I' realise this is just the start of something new.
Everything seem's totally different, radically changed. Open spacious free, really free.
I also know that 'I' am not Enlightened, far from it !
'I' am more truely myself than ever but it's also new, everything is fresh,childlike,this is probably real begginers mind.
I can only use somewhat poetic language. Ephemeral,transient experience.
In everyday dealings with people 'I' use everyday normal words like anyone would, however the inner experiece if 'i' can use that expression, is so unusual 'I' imagine. Who know's ?
A... Now that's a good question ! It's not so easy to say.
'I' am no longer here !
'I' is an illusion that I used to believe !
'I' no longer applies ...gone beyond, although 'I' realise this is just the start of something new.
Everything seem's totally different, radically changed. Open spacious free, really free.
I also know that 'I' am not Enlightened, far from it !
'I' am more truely myself than ever but it's also new, everything is fresh,childlike,this is probably real begginers mind.
I can only use somewhat poetic language. Ephemeral,transient experience.
In everyday dealings with people 'I' use everyday normal words like anyone would, however the inner experiece if 'i' can use that expression, is so unusual 'I' imagine. Who know's ?
Re: requesting jowate
7/Q... Is the experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience ? Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience ?
A...There is only experience.It seem's like the body is contained in consciousness so it looks like the body is part of experience , yes the body belongs to or in experience.
A...There is only experience.It seem's like the body is contained in consciousness so it looks like the body is part of experience , yes the body belongs to or in experience.
Re: requesting jowate
8/ Q...what did you experience at the moment you woke up from self-view ?
A... Laughter, followed by the thought "that's it"....there is no-self ! Followed by the desire to share it with someone who would understand.
A... Laughter, followed by the thought "that's it"....there is no-self ! Followed by the desire to share it with someone who would understand.
Re: requesting jowate
9/Q... Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening ?
A...It has been a total rollercoaster. I am fortunate to be part of a Buddhist community where some friends really understant awakening . So I have gravitated towards people who i know will understand. I have been full of energy, a superfluity of energy. Also a newfound mental clarity. Like a laser beam. focussed penetrating. At other times a profound restlessness not being able to settle , as if trying to escape from the intensity. Waves of bliss run around my head as 'I' sit typeing.
Intuitively I connect with people (Paradoxically) , I have not had so much fun in living life before.
I want to meditate more. I enjoy simple pleasures, breathing , being alive.
There is a newfound freedom that 'I' previously could hardly imagine.
Life is good & I feel truely human.
I am so happy. Also with a perspective that 'I' think is realistic.
Overall there is a tremendous experience of connectedness. Total engagement.
A...It has been a total rollercoaster. I am fortunate to be part of a Buddhist community where some friends really understant awakening . So I have gravitated towards people who i know will understand. I have been full of energy, a superfluity of energy. Also a newfound mental clarity. Like a laser beam. focussed penetrating. At other times a profound restlessness not being able to settle , as if trying to escape from the intensity. Waves of bliss run around my head as 'I' sit typeing.
Intuitively I connect with people (Paradoxically) , I have not had so much fun in living life before.
I want to meditate more. I enjoy simple pleasures, breathing , being alive.
There is a newfound freedom that 'I' previously could hardly imagine.
Life is good & I feel truely human.
I am so happy. Also with a perspective that 'I' think is realistic.
Overall there is a tremendous experience of connectedness. Total engagement.
Re: requesting jowate
Hi Dharmavira,
That is great - I'm really pleased for you ('you') :)
I'm going to submit the thread to the other guides for possible further questions for clarification, or confirmation. Will let you know.
T.
That is great - I'm really pleased for you ('you') :)
I'm going to submit the thread to the other guides for possible further questions for clarification, or confirmation. Will let you know.
T.
Re: requesting jowate
Hi Dharmavira,
So a couple of further questions, the first is from another guide:
How do your present findings compare with your expectations of what a Buddhist might achieve?
And from me:
Who saw this - who is happy about it?
Would it be true to say 'you' are 'a Buddhist'?
T.
So a couple of further questions, the first is from another guide:
How do your present findings compare with your expectations of what a Buddhist might achieve?
And from me:
Who saw this - who is happy about it?
Would it be true to say 'you' are 'a Buddhist'?
T.
Re: requesting jowate
Q...how do your present findings compare with your expectations of what a Buddhist might achieve?
A...I no longer really know anything for sure. Perhaps with the proviso that I do know that something is quite different. I think I used to expect awakening to be this big cosmic bang....now in hindsight it was simply seeing that there is no-self. So perhaps my past expectations were very unrealistic. It all much more normal, human and sort of life going on.
A...I no longer really know anything for sure. Perhaps with the proviso that I do know that something is quite different. I think I used to expect awakening to be this big cosmic bang....now in hindsight it was simply seeing that there is no-self. So perhaps my past expectations were very unrealistic. It all much more normal, human and sort of life going on.
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