CSerp in here...

[CSerp]

So far, I'm not finding anything to hang my hat on.

Ok, keep looking until you are absolutely sure.

I never realized it would be difficult to find me.

Yes, it's amazing how the (almost) whole world take this for granted. Even our language leads us up the garden path.
While you're at it, see if you can see who or what experiences experience.I can't find anything that owns experience. No one's behind anything.

[vinceschubert]

I can't find anything that owns experience. No one's behind anything.

So there is just Experiencing ?
..and do it take it that you are now confident that there is No self/I/Me anywhere, except mentally - as a concept ?

[CSerp]

I can't find anything that owns experience. No one's behind anything.

So there is just Experiencing ?
..and do it take it that you are now confident that there is No self/I/Me anywhere, except mentally - as a concept ?

I was focused on just that again today and I could not find an owner of things. So, yes, I'm confident that there is no such thing as a self.

[vinceschubert]

I'm confident that there is no such thing as a self.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
So when you say I, what are you referring to ?

[CSerp]

So far, I'm not finding anything to hang my hat on.

Ok, keep looking until you are absolutely sure.

I never realized it would be difficult to find me.

Yes, it's amazing how the (almost) whole world take this for granted. Even our language leads us up the garden path.
While you're at it, see if you can see who or what experiences experience.

I'm not able to identify an owner of anything. I've been focused on this for a couple of days intently trying to locate an experiencer. Nothing is thinking these thoughts that are coming up.

[CSerp]

I'm confident that there is no such thing as a self.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.It's the thought that all experience is happening to an individual, instead of the reality that it's just happening. It starts with a thought of identification as separate by other mind/bodies.
So when you say I, what are you referring to ?

The illusion of I was referring to the illusion of a separate self. Ain't no such thing. [/b]

[vinceschubert]

It's the thought that all experience is happening to an individual, instead of the reality that it's just happening. It starts with a thought of identification as separate by other mind/bodies.

Ok, a bit short in detail. So how does it start ?
How is it maintained ?

[CSerp]

It's the thought that all experience is happening to an individual, instead of the reality that it's just happening. It starts with a thought of identification as separate by other mind/bodies.

Ok, a bit short in detail. So how does it start ?
How is it maintained ?

There's no certainty, no real clarity of this. I'm looking almost constantly for the doer, the thinker and it's muddy water I'm swimming in. Gotta be resistance in the illusion. It's powerful. It fights to maintain itself."I" still want to see the truth, knowing that there's no I to see anything. I'm not even sure what your question refers to: "How does it start?". Help, please!

[vinceschubert]

How old are people when the self is beginning to be formed ?
What processes occurred to create it ?
How is it strengthened over time ?
That sort of stuff.

[CSerp]

How old are people when the self is beginning to be formed ?
What processes occurred to create it ?
How is it strengthened over time ?
That sort of stuff.

Seems it starts very early in life once a child is identified with a name as a separate entity. The mental image is reinforced a little at a time, constructed with a great deal of what "other people" seem to think of "us". Family, friends, teachers-they all reinforce the idea that there's a Daniel and he's separate from them and everyone else. With time, the image acquires much more detail, characteristics, habits, likes and dislikes, that help create this illusion of a "separate person" along with the sense that choices have been made along the way by this separate individual.

[vinceschubert]

Great. that's the stuff i was after.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

[CSerp]

Great. that's the stuff i was after.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.It's been some time ago--about six years--since "Daniel" was introduced to the IDEA of no self. It felt quite right as an idea initially, well before the ridiculous fear of losing familiar relationships and the only thing I'd thought I knew for sure--my self. Today it has a feeling of realness for the first time. I spent some time outdoors this morning and I found it amazingly alive. Stuff I'd seen a gillion times is now new and vivid. There is a knowing that this is not "my" body, not "my" fingers typing this. Observing, not owning. Thoughts are not attaching themselves to me now. Appearing and falling away. I was cleaning the bathroom sink this morning when the sense of a me was no longer part of the experience.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

It's an absolute freeing. Thoughts that used to tie me to them are no longer powerful, no longer believed or binding. There's no me to buy any of it. There never was. More soon...

[vinceschubert]

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

It's an absolute freeing. Thoughts that used to tie me to them are no longer powerful, no longer believed or binding. There's no me to buy any of it. There never was. More soon...

Describe it like you are trying to answer a teenager who has asked about it. Include context.

[CSerp]

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

It's an absolute freeing. Thoughts that used to tie me to them are no longer powerful, no longer believed or binding. There's no me to buy any of it. There never was. More soon...

Describe it like you are trying to answer a teenager who has asked about it. Include context.

It's like seeing the world for the first time. Blindness to kaleidoscope. There's a clearness. I disappeared while cleaning the sink in the bathroom. Hands were busy, soapy, putting on a show--for no one. Experienced reflections in the mirror. A basket, a face, a grin. Noticing a humming in the body. Thoughts are dropping, dissolving, not staying for dinner.

[vinceschubert]

Ah, i see. Because i am feeding these questions to you one at at time the context is missing.
The thing i'm asking you to describe is the illusion. (though i loved your description of experiencing).
So an imagined niece or nephew says "Uncle Dan, tell me about this no-self/illusion thing. How does it work ?"
..and you say, "well sit down and i'll tell you how i experienced it." ...