Wondering if Metta777 can help for round 2 seeing?

[Metta777]

You are most welcome, Crow. I will submit your answers and get back to you. There is an aftercare group where you can continue to grow and get support. I will give you my link on FB if you want to ask any questions or need to talk. Just send a friend request, but it is not something you have to do. :-) I will need your name, unless there is an objection to that, but then if I don't have your link they can't send you an invitation to Luna which is the aftercare. I am really happy for you. I will get back to you soon and at that time give you the link. Love, Metta

[Metta777]

Hi Crow, there are a few more questions . Thank You, Metta



6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?

7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

8 ) Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

9) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?

10) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening.

[Metta777]

How can a "Self" made of thoughts protect itself? Another guide had this question for you? so you have a few more.
Warmly, Metta

[Crow]

Hi Metta. Sorry I've missed you and haven't been able to answer the questions promptly. It has been a strange three days. Again there was an experience. There was a deep, and terrifying realization that all things are consciousness. In a sense everything was the same, unfolding right now. It was very, scary but felt like the truth, at least for a moment. I've thought a lot about the questions. The truth is there is understanding intellectually of No "I" and all of the other things Looked at. The stumbling block is the body now. Question 8 is unanswerable for some reason. After looking and knowing the right answer must be that all there is is experience and yet there is no true feeling of " getting that at a core lever", the rest of my seeing and understanding has become of house of cards. If awakening were to happen there would be an undeniable knowing. Only my mind "thinks" it knows. This is so disappointing. Yet there is also a keen awareness that this is exactly supposed to be happening as it is. So my question is this. Should "I" continue here? There is this feeling that my mind is not disciplined enough, that perhaps meditation needs to happen. This could be fear, or something. The truth is this mind knows the truth but this manifestation of consciousness, does not. Not sure what to do next. Thanks as always. Old crow.

[Metta777]

Hi Crow, I had a feeling you might be back, there is always an initial feeling of happiness and then the question is where are the trumpets, the angels, etc.

There was a deep, and terrifying realization that all things are consciousness.

Can you let the fear stay and see why that is so terrifying? Do you expect things to change drastically? Now life seems to keep on living itself and back to , quote ,normal. But it won't be the same , things will keep changing now.

You can see the truth all around you, but fear may be veiling it or you may not want to give up your story. Awareness doesn't need and " I " and awareness is all around you and it will continue . Birds, dogs, etc. are aware, but they have no notion of " I " , do they? They appear to enjoy affection, food, sex, the outdoors, only they don't think, this is my body, my thoughts, only men think in terms of my. Why does anything belong to you? Or better, why to you more then somebody else? If you want to investigate why you feel like running we can or you can quit.
It is a process, it goes on and then there is another insight and it does keep getting deeper. But maybe there was an urge to believe so you told yourself you did when there was still doubt. Doubt is normal in this situation an healthy. It is what it is, its going the way it should go. Who is there to be disappointed if you really intellectually or otherwise knew it is the truth??
Awareness is all, it just is, there is nothing else, your body like everything else is energy. It will become apparent after awhile that you will have to drop the body and go on. Energy transforms it is not destroyed. There is no real death, but your body does not belong to you, it just is now. We can continue working if you wish or you can let it go, but it will never be the same. There will be moments of unexpected insight, tears, laughter and more. Either way, Love to you and let me know, Metta.

[Crow]

Hello Metta. I've missed talking with you. Yes, I would like to continue. Yes I have been holding on to this story of me. It seems like it is the only thing left these days. There is doubt. There have also been very strong pointers to the truth. There is no one to be disappointed. This is true in the mind, not in the heart so to speak. How shall we proceed from here? Would you be willing to continue? There is confusion about Awareness, Consciousness, the Universe. When there has been deep seeing, there is the knowing that the Universe happens spontaneously, but feels like it is perfect and orderly in it's spontaneity. The last moment I had, that really upset the emotions and the body, was the glimpse that everything in the apartment was consciousness, that the table, chair, the body, picture, etc could not exist unless it was conscious itself. It was like "I" disappeared, but was one with every dumb little thing in the apartment. The body shook and could barely walk.
Another thing I should ask is why am "I" searching? Can I ask Metta, why did you want to Awaken? Was there a reason or was it just because? Perhaps the expectation of the feeling of Unity, peace, escape from suffering, were "my" reasons. Perhaps these are not good reasons to have. Feeling humbled. Thank you.

[Metta777]

Hi Crow, Good to hear from you. Yes, we can continue, delighted.

Yes I have been holding on to this story of me

It is as it should be. Perhaps there is the fear that if you let go of the story there will be nothing left. Observe without words or thoughts what is left in stillness. There is something left without the mind. One quick example is the non-verbal communication that takes place between people that most are not even aware of. Body language, scent, etc. Looking however will reveal there is something deeper.

There is confusion about Awareness, Consciousness, the Universe

I think you have seen the no self, no " I " perspective and perhaps it was very uncomfortable.

The last moment I had, that really upset the emotions and the body, was the glimpse that everything in the apartment was consciousness, that the table, chair, the body, picture, etc could not exist unless it was conscious itself. It was like "I" disappeared, but was one with every dumb little thing in the apartment.

Great insight, everything is one. However you are still here and aware. That will continue until you drop the body. It is the higher perspective that we are after. There is obviously a body with feelings,emotions and perceptions. It is the difference between the relative and the absolute. There will still be functioning in society as necessary, but the ability to look at things and understand that it is all impermanent, a dream of self. You can continue in the mind story and play, but something will be missing.

Another thing I should ask is why am "I" searching?

Only you can answer that. I know I had a hole in me that couldn't be filled , I tried everything, money, marriage, travel, things, everything. I traveled the world looking. Then I stood still. :-) any reason is a good one, we don't even have to have one, just the desire for truth. I am willing to stick with you as long as it takes. Luv, Metta

[Crow]

Greetings Metta. Wanted to answer some previous questions asked.

Can you let the fear stay and see why that is so terrifying?
The reason for the fear is a seemingly real feeling of death and oblivion.

Do you expect things to change drastically?
Honestly, yes I expect a profound change, but have heard that Awakening is so simple that the mind confuses it.

Why does anything belong to you? Or better, why to you more then somebody else?

Well if "i" can find no "i", and I haven't been able to point to it in direct experience, (although the sense of it remains) there can be no ownership of anything. If there is no I then the body is just the body and is free, as are all bodies. Damnit. Still stuck on the body.

Who is there to be disappointed if you really intellectually or otherwise knew it is the truth??

No-one and yet the emotions attached to the thoughts of most situations still carry a charge or feeling of personal. Could it be the self's way to stay alive? Separation! God, just want to let go and fall into this.

Awareness is all, it just is, there is nothing else, your body like everything else is energy. It will become apparent after awhile that you will have to drop the body and go on. Energy transforms it is not destroyed. There is no real death, but your body does not belong to you, it just is now.

The body just is now, the body just is now. That is true. The body isn't in the past or the future, it's here, typing, breathing, fidgeting.

Thank you Metta. Less searching, more surrendering.

[Metta777]

Hi Crow,

The reason for the fear is a seemingly real feeling of death and oblivion.

In a way it is, the death of futility, the death of trying to own the wind, which is what is. The body is now, the thoughts are now, the emotions are now and then they change or disappear. In your gut you know it to be true, or there would not be any feeling about it.
Then when looking, there is the knowledge that death is birth, that it is one and the same. Don't think about it, feel it, experience life, don't think about experiencing it. It is so beautiful and free.

No-one and yet the emotions attached to the thoughts of most situations still carry a charge or feeling of personal. Could it be the self's way to stay alive?

Yes, ego trying to maintain the illusion of self. There is no one to carry the charge, it is all only thought. Emotion is only thought. Experience is that we look in the mirror one day and feel yeah! alright, another day, we see something not so good. All kinds of emotions play with us, like shadows of tree limbs blowing in the wind on the lawn. Like clouds blown across the sky on a sunny day. Fleeting, surrender to life now, as it is, just happening, beautiful, wake and look. Let the mind go, have a mind, but don't hold it in a death grip. Feel, look, experience, breathe, laugh, jump, yell, cry, it's all there now.

That is true. The body isn't in the past or the future, it's here, typing, breathing, fidgeting.

Yes!!! It also eats , enjoys or loves, or hurts, but it is awareness only, playing, creating, lifeing, what a ride. :-)

Love, Metta

[Crow]

Hello Metta. I talked to a friend about some of what is happening here. She seemed scared and worried about my sanity. I know her to be fighting for control all the time to the point of breakdown. Yet anger bubbled up in the body. It was so personal and hurt. Yet later the thinking was " If there is no "I" then how could an "I" become upset "? This speaks to how thoughts and emotions are still invested in the illusion of a person. Also understanding this body as Awareness is confusing. Could you offer help?
Where else is there to Look? There is fear that the searching has become an Identity, another layer of a unique me. There is also a desire to have another "experience" of no self and yet there is a thought that that is a distraction from Awakening.
I told my friend that this was the most important thing to me right now. Not my acting career or anything else. There was judgment there from her. There was thinking that maybe she was right and I was playing with fire. There has also been the thoughts that perhaps "I" am hiding in this (seeing) work so as not to take action in life and avoiding facing my fears. Yet more thoughts come that this is the scariest thing ever to do, AND, it's being done! There is sticky resentment here. Oh the illusion of self love this!
Metta where else shall I look? Will "i" dissolve? Looking for the "pop" and not sure what to do next. Deepest gratitude for your continuing help!

[Metta777]

Hi Crow,

Whatever happens is perfect and meant to happen. Worry or anxiety is a sign of I , but it's human too. No worries , life is living itself just the way it is supposed to. Trying to tell someone about this process is like speaking a different language.

Before realization occurs it is like thinking that when you wake up with a gorilla suit on that you really are a gorilla, :-). If you look in the mirror you see the suit and think yep, sure looks like a gorilla to me. Feel all the hair on the suit and think, yep, sure feels like a gorilla, you jump up and down and make some noises, hmmmm, acts like a gorilla and then the suit rips. Whoaaaa! What the hell is this?

Neuroscience has been studying the brain, they can watch decisions being made on an MRI. they can predict 6 seconds before a man is even aware of it, what decision will be made. so where is the free will in that? The decision is made before awareness is even there! It is so fast and an automatic stimulus response mechanism that it feels like the decisions were made by us, but they weren't. There is no us.

Actually, when there is quite a bit of fear, some have identified with the search. Like if the search is over will I disappear?

There is also a desire to have another "experience" of no self and yet there is a thought that that is a distraction from Awakening.

There is no I to disappear after the search is over, just aftercare, boring huh. :-) Plus I will give you my link should you need to talk about something. There is no I to desire anything, it is all just thoughts. Leading to chains of thoughts being fed by your ego.

Does a bird when it is singing think that the song is itself? It is kind of the same thing, when thoughts instead of singing get confused with self.

Does the Universe separate from you when you go to sleep? If you were an I wouldn't that happen to two separate things?
No, the mind chatter will still be there, along with feelings and emotions and perceptions, but the mind story won't be believed. It will be seen through. The understanding will be there that life is happening and awareness is happening and there will be peace in that. No I has to attend.
The experience of no self does not have to be achieved or fought for, or anything given up for it, it is already there.

Hugs, Metta

[Crow]

Dear Metta. Sorry I couldn't get back to you the other day. I was on the road doing a show. So how strange that the day before you posted I read a very similar article about how decisions are made before awareness from the mind even can register. Amazing.
So there is a subtle whisper happening here. While looking on our posts and others there was this looking at the self again. "i" is a thought. Thought's cannot think and to think about another thought, is a thought itself. Through looking it is true that thoughts come and go. No doubt. Also while looking it is seen that seeing could not be seen without the seen, hearing could not be hearing without the heard and same for all the sensations of the body. This would also mean that the seer the seen and the act of seeing are all the same thing. This is the same for all the sensations too. If the "I" are thought's and the experience of these sensations is one, then all that is really happening is the experience of different sensations as one awareness happening now, spontaneously. Just living.
That's the logic that's been seen. This feels different. Perhaps there is something missing? While looking some more, and deeper there is this feeling that a soft recognition of all this is seeping in under the "understanding" intellectually of all of this. One concept that there is struggle with is ( thought's are real, but the content is not). Mind shining some light on that?

Metta. There has also been a thought to try this three on one deal. Not sure, but it keeps coming up in thought's. Again not sure if the content is real! Losing my mind. What a wonderful thing.

This feels different than the previous " manic " recognition of things. Quietly hoping to burn. Thank you again for the patience and caring. Crow.

[Metta777]

Hi Crow,

e "I" are thought's and the experience of these sensations is one, then all that is really happening is the experience of different sensations as one awareness happening now, spontaneously. Just living.

Yes, all that is happening is awareness and experiencing in the now, passing through it. Ta da!!

( thought's are real, but the content is not). Mind shining some light on that?

There is no you to be in control of thoughts, they just arise and then awareness is there. How can thought and content be separated??? Let me know on that one, sounds interesting. Missing something is just another thought.

So, I will ask this question again, "Can you find a self anywhere?" Can there be just awareness and experience, no I, just life happens, this is it.

Thoughts feelings and perception are emptiness, emptiness is form and form is emptiness.

Whatever is done, is the perfect thing to happen. if called to three on One, go for it. We can't do both, so at that point we will stop. Warmly, Metta

[Crow]

Good Afternoon Metta. Thanks as always.

It is frustrating that yesterday there is the feeling of only existence, a lightness. Today work happened and that damn feeling of "I" is everywhere. The illusion of "me" is such an old, bad habit to break. Need to go to an Illusion Anonymous meeting and work the steps. It is tiring. So tired of whining. I, (excuse the pronoun) feel like there is nothing but whining from this mind!

I looked at the " Thoughts are real, but the content is not" thought again. Ha! That's a thought too. Anyway, thoughts are for sure real. There is the experience of them coming and going. Then while looking, a thought will say something like "I need to clean the dishes". This content seems real. Yet experience has been that decisions are made spontaneously and then thought comes in later to label, judge, etc. Awareness ( No darn words seem to fit the description of THAT) is the decision maker? There is fear in not abiding by the content of thought. That has to be the thought of "I" poking about again.

How can thought and content be separated???

In looking they can't. They arrive and go as one entity. Yet if the thought and content are the same and thoughts are real then how can the content be not real? Can't seem to break through this one.

So, I will ask this question again, "Can you find a self anywhere?"

The idea of self is only labels, thought, ideas, attached emotions. It survives there, but not underneath the thought in Reality, Now. If this thought of self is only a thought coming and going (in direct experience) why is there not liberation? Perhaps I haven't reconciled or understood this " Content is not real " question. If the content of thoughts still seem real to me, then the self does too?

Thoughts feelings and perception are emptiness, emptiness is form and form is emptiness.

Hoping to see this one day.

Thanks Metta. Knocking on the gate.

[Crow]

Metta. Hi! Just did some more investigating. So could it be that thoughts are just like an estimation or an approximation of what is real? Real reality happens now. These hands type, words show up, hearing happens, that is real. Like when you had me do the walking meditation. Doing the meditation was real. Then remembering the thoughts of the meditation, the seeing was skewed, bits lost, lacking vibrance. Are all thoughts distortions of what is real? Oh...boy.