Hello Sid!
I apologize for my absence as I've been traveling the last week or so. Your answers are great, wonderful explanations, thank you. We're pretty sure you're through and see clearly there's no self, but we just want to use this time to get extra clear on these lingering doubts you mention. :) So thank you for your honesty!
Can you verbalize what these doubts are, and where any confusion remains?
With Love,
Sunni
I want to know the truth.
Re: I want to know the truth.
Well Sunni! There seem to be no self anymore nor can any effort be made to believe it anymore. So on subject of self, its clear.
Re: I want to know the truth.
As for doubts and confusion , I sent u a PM.
Re: I want to know the truth.
Okay Sid,
let's do a few sense experiments and clear up any lingering doubts and confusion.
Let's look at control just one last time for good measure with this first one:
1. pick up a couple of objects in your house, and then choose one of the objects.
Please describe in detail what happens in this process, where does the choice come from? Is there a chooser anywhere in any form or shape?
Let's now look at conscious attention, or what some might call "intention" or "focus":
2. focus on the breath ONLY. Do this for as long as you can and describe exactly what happens in experience. Is there control of it? (the focus/attention) If "control" appears, for how long does it appear to be "control"?
3. Now pick 2 objects in the room to look at, and put all conscious attention ONLY on one of the objects.
Describe exactly what happens in experience when doing this. Is there control over conscious attention/focus/intention whatsoever? How does this work/appear?
Lastly, let's look at the body one more time:
1. you have already said that the body does not experience, but rather, a body IS experienced. This is great. Does this sense of aliveness/beingness EVER truly move? Is it EVER divided at any time in any way other than in thought-stories and labels? Please describe in your own words.
2. Is there a separate and personal "experiencer" of life in direct experience? Or is there thoughts about an "experiencer" all while a seamless flow of pure experience happens totally without separation? LOOK deeply at this in direct experience and describe what you find.
The reason we rely on direct experience over thought stories is because experience always simply IS, it never moves, it can always be found and it is utterly undeniable. While thought flip flops back and forth on itself in and AS *This*, it is empty of any absolute truth and cannot be nailed down to anything real whatsoever. It can always be proven or disproven with more thought.
But EXPERIENCE/ALIVENESS cannot be negated, or reduced, or confused, it just simply IS.
Ever-present, un-moving, un-changing. Check this directly.
With Love,
Sunni
let's do a few sense experiments and clear up any lingering doubts and confusion.
Let's look at control just one last time for good measure with this first one:
1. pick up a couple of objects in your house, and then choose one of the objects.
Please describe in detail what happens in this process, where does the choice come from? Is there a chooser anywhere in any form or shape?
Let's now look at conscious attention, or what some might call "intention" or "focus":
2. focus on the breath ONLY. Do this for as long as you can and describe exactly what happens in experience. Is there control of it? (the focus/attention) If "control" appears, for how long does it appear to be "control"?
3. Now pick 2 objects in the room to look at, and put all conscious attention ONLY on one of the objects.
Describe exactly what happens in experience when doing this. Is there control over conscious attention/focus/intention whatsoever? How does this work/appear?
Lastly, let's look at the body one more time:
1. you have already said that the body does not experience, but rather, a body IS experienced. This is great. Does this sense of aliveness/beingness EVER truly move? Is it EVER divided at any time in any way other than in thought-stories and labels? Please describe in your own words.
2. Is there a separate and personal "experiencer" of life in direct experience? Or is there thoughts about an "experiencer" all while a seamless flow of pure experience happens totally without separation? LOOK deeply at this in direct experience and describe what you find.
The reason we rely on direct experience over thought stories is because experience always simply IS, it never moves, it can always be found and it is utterly undeniable. While thought flip flops back and forth on itself in and AS *This*, it is empty of any absolute truth and cannot be nailed down to anything real whatsoever. It can always be proven or disproven with more thought.
But EXPERIENCE/ALIVENESS cannot be negated, or reduced, or confused, it just simply IS.
Ever-present, un-moving, un-changing. Check this directly.
With Love,
Sunni
Re: I want to know the truth.
Hey Sunni!
Well , lets see. Sid read the question. A thought came ' focus on your breath' . This lead to action of focussing on the breath. Then sid breathed slowly. Sid held his breath and then he slowly exhaled. While it did seem that a choice was made on breathing slowly , holding the breath and exhaling slowly unlike the regular breathing which seems to be automatic and happening on its own. The thing is , in case of the slow breathing , there was more awareness , more attention to paid to it. Hence it felt like a choice. The thought ' focus on your breath' , the action of conscious slow breathing all arised on its own. Because there level of attention on the this process was more, it felt like a choice..
Sid was walking about the room pondering about something. There wasn't much attention paid to walking about as sid was lost in thought. the walking happened automatically.When sid paid attention to his walking , t each step made. it seemed like a choice was made on the steps taken and where he stepped. But this process just happened automatically and since ,the level of attention/awareness of walking this time was more , it felt there was choice being made to walk consciously. But the direct experience shows that 'I' was being conscious of a process that was happening on its own.
Ha! This is a wonderful question which cleared the remaining cobwebs of doubt and confusion i had on issue of control. I mentioned to you in previous posts that i felt there was some lingering doubts still there. it was mainly about choice. Well I understood that choice was mainly thoughts, yet there was a sense of making a choice.There were times that i felt like i was making a choice. This question did bring an understanding of choice .Let's now look at conscious attention, or what some might call "intention" or "focus":
2. focus on the breath ONLY. Do this for as long as you can and describe exactly what happens in experience. Is there control of it? (the focus/attention) If "control" appears, for how long does it appear to be "control"?
Well , lets see. Sid read the question. A thought came ' focus on your breath' . This lead to action of focussing on the breath. Then sid breathed slowly. Sid held his breath and then he slowly exhaled. While it did seem that a choice was made on breathing slowly , holding the breath and exhaling slowly unlike the regular breathing which seems to be automatic and happening on its own. The thing is , in case of the slow breathing , there was more awareness , more attention to paid to it. Hence it felt like a choice. The thought ' focus on your breath' , the action of conscious slow breathing all arised on its own. Because there level of attention on the this process was more, it felt like a choice..
Sid was walking about the room pondering about something. There wasn't much attention paid to walking about as sid was lost in thought. the walking happened automatically.When sid paid attention to his walking , t each step made. it seemed like a choice was made on the steps taken and where he stepped. But this process just happened automatically and since ,the level of attention/awareness of walking this time was more , it felt there was choice being made to walk consciously. But the direct experience shows that 'I' was being conscious of a process that was happening on its own.
a couple of thoughts arises on picking the object. This leads to action of picking an object and paying conscious attention to it which seems like a choice.There is no chooser at all.There is no control over the conscious attention or focus or the amount of it .It all just arises with respect to the situation.1. pick up a couple of objects in your house, and then choose one of the objects.
Please describe in detail what happens in this process, where does the choice come from? Is there a chooser anywhere in any form or shape?
Re: I want to know the truth.
Well the body moves. Aliveness is experienced. it isn't divided. But it can be sensed around me and in me. But it is more felt in 'me' than outside of 'me'. There don't seem to be dividing line for it.1. you have already said that the body does not experience, but rather, a body IS experienced. This is great. Does this sense of aliveness/beingness EVER truly move? Is it EVER divided at any time in any way other than in thought-stories and labels? Please describe in your own words.
No . there is no separate experience of life. the experiencer doesn't exist though. There are just thoughts referring to an experiencer. Despite all this, there is a sense of experiencing life on a personal and direct level without the self .2. Is there a separate and personal "experiencer" of life in direct experience? Or is there thoughts about an "experiencer" all while a seamless flow of pure experience happens totally without separation? LOOK deeply at this in direct experience and describe what you find.
Re: I want to know the truth.
Great looking Sid!
Do the thoughts that say "I am still experiencing life as personal" hold any validity whatsoever in direct experience? Who is that thought pointing to?? Are YOU doing that thought?
It is not that NOTHING is here, that is ridiculous. What is here, as you've reported it, we've called ALIVENESS/LIFE/BEING - it's undeniable - and is it personal in ANY WAY in direct experience? LOOK closely.
Let me know what you find.
Much love,
Sunni
Right! and was "Sid" the director of the level of attention? Or is "Sid" just a thought that comes that claims ownership of the attention that's happening? When focusing on the breathing did ANY thoughts come up at all? Were you able to suppress all thought and focus exclusively on the breath for an indeterminate amount of time without any thought labels or focus/awareness on any other thing?? If there is control of attention/focus anywhere at all, in any way shape or form, this would be absolutely doable. If there is control of thought, this would also be absolutely doable.The thought ' focus on your breath' , the action of conscious slow breathing all arised on its own. Because there level of attention on the this process was more, it felt like a choice..
Was that which was conscious of the process, and the apparent process itself divided in any way? Or is the walking simply happening, with thoughts saying "I am conscious of walking" at the same time? In direct experience (without the thought) what is there? In direct experience (without thought stories) is there walking and that which is aware of walking?But the direct experience shows that 'I' was being conscious of a process that was happening on its own.
Yes! Wonderful. The "chooser" is in THOUGHT only. Not to badger, but is "the situation" and what is "arising in the situation" divided, in any way, in direct experience??There is no chooser at all.There is no control over the conscious attention or focus or the amount of it .It all just arises with respect to the situation.
See this 'me' in your sentence above, it refers to the body. So it feels like this alive/awareness is encapsulated in the body, doesn't it? What we call "the body" or "my body" can really be broken down into sense streams: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, and sensations of various kinds. Can you see that it is purely a thought-story that links these sense streams together and calls them "my body" and because of that "my body" is perceived/experienced? Without this thought-label, in direct experience, where is this "me" point of awareness? Where is this "inside" and "outside"?Well the body moves. Aliveness is experienced. it isn't divided. But it can be sensed around me and in me. But it is more felt in 'me' than outside of 'me'. There don't seem to be dividing line for it.
Yes! "the experiencer doesn't exist, just thoughts referring to an experiencer". Exactly. And yes, "despite all this there is a sense of experiencing life on a personal level without the self" - it feels that way because the thoughts are still referring to a self, even though you now see it's not there, but what can be personal without a self?No . there is no separate experience of life. the experiencer doesn't exist though. There are just thoughts referring to an experiencer. Despite all this, there is a sense of experiencing life on a personal and direct level without the self .
Do the thoughts that say "I am still experiencing life as personal" hold any validity whatsoever in direct experience? Who is that thought pointing to?? Are YOU doing that thought?
It is not that NOTHING is here, that is ridiculous. What is here, as you've reported it, we've called ALIVENESS/LIFE/BEING - it's undeniable - and is it personal in ANY WAY in direct experience? LOOK closely.
Let me know what you find.
Much love,
Sunni
Re: I want to know the truth.
Hey Sunni!
Aliveness is personal in anyway just like the air , the sunlight , the empty space.
Wll, focussing on breathing did reduce the number of thoughts or rather not much attention was paid to it. Ironically , the thoughts ' you are not thinking any thoughts' came up when there was focus on the breath to see if thoughts can be controlled.? When focusing on the breathing did ANY thoughts come up at all? Were you able to suppress all thought and focus exclusively on the breath for an indeterminate amount of time without any thought labels or focus/awareness on any other thing?? If there is control of attention/focus anywhere at all, in any way shape or form, this would be absolutely doable. If there is control of thought, this would also be absolutely doable.
No, there is no division. The doer and doing are the same. The separation comes from thoughts which is also part of process.Was that which was conscious of the process, and the apparent process itself divided in any way? Or is the walking simply happening, with thoughts saying "I am conscious of walking" at the same time? In direct experience (without the thought) what is there? In direct experience (without thought stories) is there walking and that which is aware of walking?
Again no. there is no division of situation and what is arising in the situation.Yes! Wonderful. The "chooser" is in THOUGHT only. Not to badger, but is "the situation" and what is "arising in the situation" divided, in any way, in direct experience??
That a wonderful explanation Sunni! yes. The body is product of sensation and thoughts . If neither of these could be experienced, no division would be felt. Its like the space where all feelings , sensation and thoughts arise and these together give an experience of a body .So aliveness or awareness isn't really divided.See this 'me' in your sentence above, it refers to the body. So it feels like this alive/awareness is encapsulated in the body, doesn't it? What we call "the body" or "my body" can really be broken down into sense streams: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, and sensations of various kinds. Can you see that it is purely a thought-story that links these sense streams together and calls them "my body" and because of that "my body" is perceived/experienced? Without this thought-label, in direct experience, where is this "me" point of awareness? Where is this "inside" and "outside"?
Well ,there is nothing personal when self doesn't exist. A sense of personal seem to arise when the thoughts and feeling related to self are being experienced. I did understand that when i typed that sentence.Yes! "the experiencer doesn't exist, just thoughts referring to an experiencer". Exactly. And yes, "despite all this there is a sense of experiencing life on a personal level without the self" - it feels that way because the thoughts are still referring to a self, even though you now see it's not there, but what can be personal without a self?
Aliveness is personal in anyway just like the air , the sunlight , the empty space.
Re: I want to know the truth.
Wonderful, wonderful Sid!
Was there any noticeable shift in this last part of the Looking? How does this feel?
I am confident you are clear, but need to get the other guides to confirm, so I'll be back in touch soon.
With Love,
Sunni
Was there any noticeable shift in this last part of the Looking? How does this feel?
I am confident you are clear, but need to get the other guides to confirm, so I'll be back in touch soon.
With Love,
Sunni
Re: I want to know the truth.
Hey Sunni!
The realization of body as thoughts + sensations + feelings and aliveness everywhere has put some things into perspective. A feeling of excitement arises when this is seen.It certainly brings in the feeling of connectedness. I plan to just sit, close my eyes and be aware of this.
P.S - in previous post , last sentence , i meant Aliveness is NOT personal in anyway just like the air , the sunlight , the empty space.
Cheers
Sid
Well there isn't a sudden noticeable shift, rather a gradual one. I now feel more connected to all this, more peaceful. There is a more and more acceptance of what is.as there any noticeable shift in this last part of the Looking? How does this feel?
The realization of body as thoughts + sensations + feelings and aliveness everywhere has put some things into perspective. A feeling of excitement arises when this is seen.It certainly brings in the feeling of connectedness. I plan to just sit, close my eyes and be aware of this.
P.S - in previous post , last sentence , i meant Aliveness is NOT personal in anyway just like the air , the sunlight , the empty space.
Cheers
Sid
Re: I want to know the truth.
Beautiful Sid. beautiful. :)
I am still waiting on a couple replies. Will be back with you soon.
With Love,
Sunni
I am still waiting on a couple replies. Will be back with you soon.
With Love,
Sunni
Re: I want to know the truth.
Just a couple final questions for you Sid from some of the other guides:
1. When you refer to "Sid" who/what are you referring to?
2. With Sid gone, what's left?
3. And not to be pedantic (sorry but we have to be sticklers) but, can you "plan" or "be aware of" anything?
1. When you refer to "Sid" who/what are you referring to?
2. With Sid gone, what's left?
3. And not to be pedantic (sorry but we have to be sticklers) but, can you "plan" or "be aware of" anything?
Re: I want to know the truth.
Hey Sunni!
Not really to anyone in particular. Sid is a label that points to no one actually. Sid is a role that is being played in this world , mainly for practical purposes.1. When you refer to "Sid" who/what are you referring to?
Well , things remain as it is. Perspective changes. All this remains. But there is less importance given to the thoughts and to role of sid. There is a realization that 'sid' is not who I am. Life is arising on its own.2. With Sid gone, what's left?
Well, there is no one to be aware of anything. There is just awareness. Being aware just happens according to situation that arises. Planning are just thoughts that arise.3. And not to be pedantic (sorry but we have to be sticklers) but, can you "plan" or "be aware of" anything?
Re: I want to know the truth.
Hello Sid!
When you say:
and when you say:
and when you say:
Do you see what I'm getting at? I know this language and so we just want to make sure language isn't hiding an "I" - cracking out that microscope!
With Love,
Sunni
When you say:
do you mean you use the name/label "Sid" mainly for practical purposes (and of course, that's totally normal), or do you mean that Sid is something real that has a practical purpose? Again, not to be pedantic, just clarifying.mainly for practical purposes.
and when you say:
is there a role sid anywhere at all in any reality whatsoever outside of thought??the role of sid
and when you say:
Do you mean that awareness appears in THIS just like everything else, or do you mean that there is something that is aware in you and responds when needed?? (hidden I thoughts)Being aware just happens according to situation that arises
Do you see what I'm getting at? I know this language and so we just want to make sure language isn't hiding an "I" - cracking out that microscope!
With Love,
Sunni
Re: I want to know the truth.
No , sid isn't something real thaty has practical purpose. Its just a label that is used for practical purposes.do you mean you use the name/label "Sid" mainly for practical purposes (and of course, that's totally normal), or do you mean that Sid is something real that has a practical purpose? Again, not to be pedantic, just clarifying.
No , Sid is ultimately just thoughts. Its a label - thoughts that is being used.is there a role sid anywhere at all in any reality whatsoever outside of thought??
No no no. There is always awareness. "i" am always aware. The degree of awareness to a particular thing or various things differs according to situation.Do you mean that awareness appears in THIS just like everything else, or do you mean that there is something that is aware in you and responds when needed?? (hidden I thoughts)
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