I Need Guidance

[vinceschubert]

Sort of.

More info please.

[Noobstorm]

Sort of.

More info please.

I said that because I'm not sure what qualifies as imagining things. Can you elaborate, please?

[Space]

Greetings Noobstorm,

Imagination is more or less everything we live in. Because we cannot separate sensations in the body, thoughts in the mind, and perceptions of the world, we are in a constant state of hallucination governed by the convergence of these three factors. What we want to try to recognize within these three unique but interrelated experiential fields, is that there is no separate witnessing entity present OTHER THAN those very things. That is, sensation, thought, and perception, actually constitute the ENTIRE basis for "experience" and there is no "experiencer." Those ARE the experiencer. That is what it means that there is no separate self or I.

[Noobstorm]

Thanks for the explanation Space :)

I suppose the self is just an underlying assumption. It's a creation (of thought), and that is where I am stuck. This human organism has a self "programmed" in it, and it is real (from this point of view).

I don't know if that's really why it hasn't clicked. It may be absurd, but I just thought it might be worth mentioning because it gives the self some sort of credibility.

[vinceschubert]

it gives the self some sort of credibility.

From the perspective of the mind, self is very credible. Because the programming is predicated on the existence of that independent self. Just as language is. (part of the programming)

This human organism has a self "programmed" in it

Ali, can you see how the programming happened ?

[Noobstorm]

Ali, can you see how the programming happened ?

I guess not, because I haven't seen through the delusion.

Because the general consensus is all the same I get so damn confused.

There is however definitive answers in experiencing.

It doesn't seem that way at all. There is no answer in experiencing, and thoughts about it trying to figure it out.

There is the question of doing or thinking.. it is uncertain. I need to understand how all of this works, this is the source of my confusion.

[vinceschubert]

I need to understand how all of this works,

You will NEVER understand how this works.
It is beyond understanding. The mind cannot grasp what is before it.
It is like asking water to understand how a tap works or asking a beam of light to understand how a torch works.
When you SEE, it will not be an intellectual understanding.
Stop trying to figure it out and LOOK. Just see without thinking. It is the mind that obscures the SEEing.
It is SO CLOSE to you, that the most likely thing is that you are looking past it.
WHATEVER is happening is IT !

[Noobstorm]

WHATEVER is happening is IT !

It doesn't seem like it.. some more clearing up is needed.

[vinceschubert]

If Whatever is happening is not what is happening (not IT) then What is ?
How can the totality of your experiencing be anything other than the totality of your experiencing ?
Isn't this obvious ?

[Noobstorm]

If Whatever is happening is not what is happening (not IT) then What is ?
How can the totality of your experiencing be anything other than the totality of your experiencing ?
Isn't this obvious ?

Yes that is true... it being found anywhere else is imagination.

It is the mind that obscures the SEEing.

This is why I fail to see it.

[vinceschubert]

it being found anywhere else is imagination.

Are you able to see when it is from imagination ? (before, during or after it occurs.)

[Noobstorm]

it being found anywhere else is imagination.

Are you able to see when it is from imagination ? (before, during or after it occurs.)

Yes, if it is not being experienced it is imagined.

[Noobstorm]

Oh I don't think I read your question correctly. It is from imagination before it occurs.

[vinceschubert]

Ok, i am asking can you distinguish when what you experience is from imagination or from your physical world ?
If you say yes, then do you do it normally, or do you take it all as from the physical world ?

[Noobstorm]

Ok, i am asking can you distinguish when what you experience is from imagination or from your physical world ?

Yes.

If you say yes, then do you do it normally, or do you take it all as from the physical world ?

Normally.