I Need Guidance

[Noobstorm]

But there is control

Is there ? or does it just seem that there is.

I don't know.

How do you experience control ?

Doing/learning things, analyzing, etc. It all comes from this organism.

[vinceschubert]

Doing/learning things, analyzing, etc. It all comes from this organism.

Yes, but this doesn't say anything about control.
What is the process of using 'control'.

[Noobstorm]

Doing/learning things, analyzing, etc. It all comes from this organism.

Yes, but this doesn't say anything about control.
What is the process of using 'control'.

It just happens.

[vinceschubert]

Yes it just happens. Conditions for the happening have aligned, and it happens.
No control anywhere in sight, right ?
Every thought you had, every emotion felt, every action, every experience that you have ever had, they all add up to some of the conditions that were involved. Add to this the same for anyone else involved. Then add the circumstances of the place. The everything that had ever transpired in that place to lead it to be the place it is at the time of the happening. Add also the circumstances of the time. How was it that that particular happening occurred at that time. Why not earlier, or later. Obviously, every bit of time that had ever passed, had to pass in order for this particular time to arrive.
There may be other things involved in comprising of the necessary conditions for any happening to occur, but you get my drift ?
If you take it far enough, you can see that everything that ever existed and everybody that ever existed are all involved in the ripening of any conditions necessary for a happening.
So, the involvement of Ali in all of this is other than as a controller.
Can you SEE that the idea of control is just that, an idea ? That it is not actual ?

[Noobstorm]

There may be other things involved in comprising of the necessary conditions for any happening to occur, but you get my drift ?

Somewhat.

If you take it far enough, you can see that everything that ever existed and everybody that ever existed are all involved in the ripening of any conditions necessary for a happening.

I don't understand this.

Can you SEE that the idea of control is just that, an idea ? That it is not actual ?

I don't think so.

[vinceschubert]

Can you SEE that the idea of control is just that, an idea ? That it is not actual ?
I don't think so.

Ok, to put is more simply; It takes many conditions to come together before an apparent decision can occur. Most of those conditions are external to that organism you call Ali. Even the ones that are intrinsic to Ali have necessary pre-conditions.
It is just impossible for you to say that you are going to do something, then do it without all of those conditions being in place.

[Noobstorm]

Ok, to put is more simply; It takes many conditions to come together before an apparent decision can occur. Most of those conditions are external to that organism you call Ali. Even the ones that are intrinsic to Ali have necessary pre-conditions.
It is just impossible for you to say that you are going to do something, then do it without all of those conditions being in place.

Ok.

[Noobstorm]

Can you SEE that the idea of control is just that, an idea ? That it is not actual ?

I understand it, yes. But I don't SEE it.

[vinceschubert]

Do you know what SEEing is ?
What is the difference between intellectual understanding and SEEing ?

[Noobstorm]

Do you know what SEEing is ?
What is the difference between intellectual understanding and SEEing ?

Intellectual understanding is with thoughts, and SEEing is with experience.

[vinceschubert]

Intellectual understanding is with thoughts, and SEEing is with experience.

Correct, but i would add that the expression of experience is with thoughts, and intellectual understanding is with thoughts that are born of other thoughts.
Which of these applies to your 'understanding' of control ?
...and if it's only intellectual understanding, do you think that that might be a portal into experiencing ?

[Noobstorm]

Intellectual understanding is with thoughts, and SEEing is with experience.

Correct, but i would add that the expression of experience is with thoughts, and intellectual understanding is with thoughts that are born of other thoughts.
Which of these applies to your 'understanding' of control ?

Thoughts born of other thoughts

...and if it's only intellectual understanding, do you think that that might be a portal into experiencing ?

No, it hasn't helped thus far.

[Noobstorm]

Thoughts born of other thoughts

Thoughts trying to analyze about things in experience.. it's just confusing I suppose since there's no definitive answer.

[vinceschubert]

Thoughts trying to analyze about things in experience..

..and you end up with more thoughts.

it's just confusing I suppose since there's no definitive answer.

Yes, there certainly is no definitive answer in thought. There is however definitive answers in experiencing.
The problem is though, that experiencing that is a response to thought is what you might call a secondary reality.
It's observation of the actual before interpretation occurs that i would call primary reality.
This whole process is about recognising that primary reality.
Life-ing gets really sweet and clear then.
It only takes us to SEE when we distort primary reality with the overlay of story.
Can you recognise the difference between primary and secondary reality ?
Can you see when you imagine things about a primary reality ?

[Noobstorm]

Can you recognise the difference between primary and secondary reality ?

I understand the difference between the two.

Can you see when you imagine things about a primary reality ?

Sort of.