Liane's Inquiry

[Noro]

Hi Liane,

I remembered two occasions when I lied to people I loved. Both brought up a heavy, crushing feeling in my chest and a strong constriction in my stomach and solar plexus area. There was a lot of tightness and heaviness. I remember these sensations lasting throughout the day after telling the lies.

Yes, absolutely. It is like this!

When it feels good for you have a look at this exploration.

VISUAL FIELD

Start from a place where you feel calm and relaxed, take a few gentle breaths, and:

Look to your right.
Then look to your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, CLOSE YOUR EYES and look forward.

Okay, so when you look to the right, the view (visual experience) on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look to the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).

And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the visual experience in front is seen. Even with eyes closed there is a direct visual experience (and I am not talking about an imagined visual situation).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ to see or not to see? Yes/No?

I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘blank space’ if you close your eyes.
The question is:

Can you turn seeing off? Yes/No
Can you NOT see what is seen? Yes/No

Same thing when you are facing to your left, can there be a choice to NOT see the view on the left? Yes/No
Same thing when you are facing forward with closed eyes, can you NOT see the what is seen? Yes/No

Can an independent self or 'doer' be found that can choose to turn seeing off or on? Yes/No.


Warm regards,
Rowena

[Tessi8899]

I'm having a hard time understanding the visual field exercise. I understand some of what you're pointing to, but I'm not really getting what you're asking me to look for.

I understand that when I look at something, it's simply there. But I can also be looking at something while completely lost in thought and not really noticing what I'm seeing.

I'm getting confused about the difference between seeing, looking, and being aware of what I'm seeing. Could you explain it another way?

[Noro]

Hi Liane,

In direct experience there are the five sense fields of experience.
The sixth field of experience is mind/thinking.
We do contemplation practice with each field separately.
The 'field of thought' is ALWAYS an interpretation, or description about the sensory field. Neuroscience points to this.
Thought is overlay.

Looking at the visual field we can take in the whole field, like a huge painted canvas that is right in front of our face.
Or,
We can zone in on an object, give it a label, and with that a lot of subtle associations will arise from the data bank of our lived experience concerning our interest or not in the said object.

Once the mind is brought in to the direct experience and attention shifts to thoughts, then there is little attention left for a direct experience of the visual field.

So, this exercise asks you to simply look at the visual field, and to practice seeing without naming.
If attention is placed on the visual field then that sense will be activated.

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ to see or not to see? Yes/No?

So, with attention placed with gaze to the right eyes open do you control whether you see or not?

i.e can you Turn on and turn off seeing or does seeing simply happen without any separate agent to control that faculty?

I hope this clarifies.

Note that we are always looking for some separate agent, doer, controller in the exercises.

Warm regards,
Rowena

[Tessi8899]

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ to see or not to see? Yes/No?

No. When I'm looking to the right with my eyes open, seeing simply happens. I don't choose whether seeing occurs.

So, with attention placed with gaze to the right eyes open do you control whether you see or not?

No...

[Noro]

Hi Liane,

Good, you’re getting the hang of it!
Please will you do the whole exercise from the previous post.

Also to answer… there’s not much difference between looking and seeing really, but one has perception attached which means that describing can arise. I look in front of me and I see the tree.

The same with hearing, but there can be a bit of a nuanced interpretation. Direct experience is always without interpretation by thought.

Warm regards,
Rowena

[Tessi8899]

Hi Rowena, just a quick question

I'm wondering whether I can return to some of the earlier exercises, like noticing the senses while washing dishes and others while going about my day? Now that we've moved on, these exercises have already becoming a distant memory.

Would it be helpful to bring them to mind throughout the day as we continue with the inquiry?

[Noro]

Hello Liane,

I'm wondering whether I can return to some of the earlier exercises, like noticing the senses while washing dishes and others while going about my day? Now that we've moved on, these exercises have already becoming a distant memory.
Would it be helpful to bring them to mind throughout the day as we continue with the inquiry?

Yes, absolutely, the first and second exercises are really great to do whenever they come to mind. My suggestion would be to copy any of the exercises that you find particularly helpful so that you don't have to always go back through our thread.

Also, don't worry if you need to take extra time if I send a new exercise and you don't feel ready to do it. Do those early ones instead.

I will wait for your answers from the Visual Field before sending you a new exercise.

Warm regards,
Rowena

[Tessi8899]

Can you turn seeing off? Yes/No

No........

Can you NOT see what is seen? Yes/No

NO..........

Same thing when you are facing to your left, can there be a choice to NOT see the view on the left? Yes/No

NO........

Same thing when you are facing forward with closed eyes, can you NOT see the what is seen? Yes/No

When i close my eyes and all i notice is darkness, I can't choose to make that darkness disappear

Can an independent self or 'doer' be found that can choose to turn seeing off or on? Yes/No.

NO

[Noro]

Hi Liane,


DIRECT EXPERIENCE IS FULL-ON ALIVENESS WITHOUT INTERPRETATION, IMMEDIATE, WITHOUT LABELS.

INVESTIGATION WITH AN APPLE (or any other fruit you have to hand.)
Here's an exercise for you to get very clear on what direct experience is. Place the piece of fruit in front of you on the table.

When looking at the fruit in the conventional way (CE), there is looking at something in the visual field, and perceiving color followed by shape. Then thinking comes very quickly afterwards with a thought saying "apple" and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

Here is a web photo of an apple:
https://pixabay.com/photos/apple-red-red-apple-2788616/

In direct experience (DE) there is simply seeing, and this simple act of seeing does not include any interpretations or descriptions. In actual fact, nothing is named in direct experience, (think of a baby that is looking around in wonder), all that is seen is a kaleidoscope of light/color. However, as a concession, for the sake of communicating we can allow a minimum of thought content in order to do this exercise; so we can say that colors and shapes are seen, and thinking is also 'seen' but the content of thought, the thoughts about what is seen, is not included.

Direct experience does not refer to thought content (including labels, interpretations and descriptions) about something.

Direct experience refers to the raw data of the sense fields: sound, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thinking arising, but not its content.

So, in your direct experience, when you look at the color and shape in front of you,

is there really an 'apple' here or only color and shape and a thought about 'apple'?
Can an actual 'apple' be found in direct experience?

While thoughts or descriptions are known, what they talk about can't be found in direct experience.

I hope that this is clear for you. Let me know how you get on.

Warm regards,
Rowena

[Tessi8899]

Coming from an art background, I find this exercise interesting. Most people tend to focus immediately on the apple itself and overlook what's around it. In drawing, we call that negative space—the background and the shapes surrounding the object. The object itself is called the positive space.

As an artist, I've always tended to notice the negative space as much as the positive space, or the object itself. I naturally look at blocks of colour, shapes, light, and shadows rather than just focusing on the apple.

So this way of looking is already quite familiar to me. However, in this case, direct experience is an open awareness of what is happening through the senses, before defining, labelling, naming, or interpreting it.

[Noro]

Hello Liane,

So this way of looking is already quite familiar to me. However, in this case, direct experience is an open awareness of what is happening through the senses, before defining, labelling, naming, or interpreting it.

Great that you are already familiar with this way of looking/seeing.


Now we will look at the sound field.

HEARING INVESTIGATION

Find somewhere quiet to sit. Rest for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Or, you can play some music. Allow yourself to relax and open to the whole 'sound field'. Allow yourself to become absorbed into the sound field.

In your direct experience:

Where does it feel that the sound is?

Ask yourself, where does it feel that "I" am?

Can any boundary be found anywhere between what seems to be hearing and what is heard, or is there only 'what is heard'?

In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'sounds arising'?

Can a hearer be found? Or is there only 'what is heard'?

Can location or distance be known from simply hearing?

An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can any of these be found doing hearing?

Can a hearer be found separate from 'what is heard'?

Now ask: What is the difference in experience between hearing and listening?

What happens to the quality of hearing when you ask this question?
Does attention shift from hearing to the thought space?

Notice any sensations that arise in the body with this question.
Be fully with the sensations in the body, let go of any thoughts.

Allow yourself once again to become absorbed in the sounds.

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found?
Could anything that is suggested as a hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?
What do you find?

Please answer each individual question in blue.


Warm regards,
Rowena

[Tessi8899]

I'm finding this exercise quite difficult. Some of my answers seem to contradict each other, and I'm not sure what to make of that. I've answered as best I can from what I'm experiencing rather than trying to work out the correct answers.

Where does it feel that the sound is?

Out there kind of feeling. From the direction it's coming from

Ask yourself, where does it feel that "I" am?

Here

Can any boundary be found anywhere between what seems to be hearing and what is heard, or is there only 'what is heard'?

I sense no boundary, I’m not sure if there is only “what is heard”

In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'sounds arising'?

no

Can a hearer be found? Or is there only 'what is heard'?

I sense that “I” am hearing

Can location or distance be known from simply hearing?

It feels like location

An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can any of these be found doing hearing?

A body

Can a hearer be found separate from 'what is heard'?

Yes

Now ask: What is the difference in experience between hearing and listening?

in listening, I seem to be more attentive, in hearing it seems more spontaneous.

What happens to the quality of hearing when you ask this question?

Does attention shift from hearing to the thought space?

yes

Notice any sensations that arise in the body with this question?

Tension

Be fully with the sensations in the body, let go of any thoughts.

Allow yourself once again to become absorbed in the sounds.

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found?

I don’t know

Could anything that is suggested as a hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

What do you find?
I don’t know for sure, it feels like a thought

[Noro]

Hello Liane,

You were doing pretty well until this question. You did not answer from your direct experience(DE), you gave a conceptual answer and this is when thought steps in and over-rides what is found in direct experience. Perhaps the wording of the questions was not always clear so please take a look at the following:

Can any boundary be found anywhere between what seems to be hearing and what is heard, or is there only 'what is heard'?

I sense no boundary, I’m not sure if there is only “what is heard”

Perhaps this makes it easier:
In your direct experience is there any kind of dividing line that can be found between hearer and the sound field ?
Can a 'hearer' be found separate from the sound field or is there only "'hearing happening"?

Can a hearer be found? Or is there only 'what is heard'? (sounds appearing)

I sense that “I” am hearing

Let's look at what you wrote here. "I sense that "I" am hearing", could also be said "It feels as if "I" am hearing" or "It seems as if "I" am hearing". For each of those answers, the only question to be asked is the one below.

It was a direct question: Can a hearer "I" be found or located from the sound field?" Yes or No?
If Yes, then where in DE can a hearer be found other than a thought?
If the answer to this is "Here"
Then, where in DE is "Here" ?

In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'sounds arising'?

no

Good answer from DE!

Can location or distance be known from simply hearing?

It feels like location

How does location feel?
Do sounds indicate location?
Do sounds indicate anything other than sound?
(Remember in DE any sound is simply : hearing)
How is location known from simply ; hearing, other than as a thought?

An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears? Can any of these be found doing hearing?

A body

When all your attention is placed in the sound field can anything else be found in direct experience?

Now ask: What is the difference in experience between hearing and listening?

in listening, I seem to be more attentive, in hearing it seems more spontaneous.

Good!

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found?

I don’t know

This is a Yes or No answer!
Can an INHERENT, SEPARATE SOMEONE DOING THE HEARING be found?

Could anything that is suggested as a hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought? What do you find?

I don’t know for sure, it feels like a thought

If there is any suggestion of a separate hearer, could this be anything other than a thought, or an unexplored assumption, even if it FEELS like there is? Yes or No?


I hope this is clearer now. The most important is to continually bring yourself back to DE as it can be so easy for conceptual thinking to take over and answer the questions, and this is the habitual default patter we are looking to interrupt.


Warm regards,
Rowena