What am i?

[Idk]

Also, I wanted to share a couple of realizations I had that I wanted to tell you about a week ago, but I forgot. As I slowly started noticing that everything I was observing wasn’t me, it surprised me that I didn’t gradually realize that everything is one—it was an instant realization. As long as there was the world and there was “me” in it, there was separation. But once the idea of “me” disappeared, it immediately became obvious that everything is one and that everything comes from the same source. I also feel like I finally understood why “nothing” is more fundamental than “something.” It’s because the whole world arises out of nothing. Everything outside of consciousness doesn’t exist, and when consciousness disappears, like during sleep, that “nothing” becomes total. That’s basically the fundamental state of reality.

[Noro]

Hi Idk,

Thanks for your two messages. It is good to hear from you. You are getting close, so let's keep looking, not coming to conclusions about your inquiry.

Are you looking to defend seeing a "self?" Or looking to see there is no "self?"
Believing is seeing. You can continue to believe the story of self forever and nothing I or anyone say will dissuade you.

The observation practice hasn’t been going as smoothly as I expected.

This is an interpretation, it is pure thought content. What is this "I" that can expect or not expect? Where is it to be found?

.....but as soon as I start thinking, I can’t untangle the knot anymore. Everything blends into one big mess, and the sense of “me” comes back, which confuses me, because the previous time it was much easier to see through this, and there was much less confusion

Can you see that this is simply the appearance of a thought: "I can't untangle the knot anymore."
In your direct experience, can a sense of "me" come back? Was it ever there in the first place?
Please investigate this sense of "me" carefully. To what does it refer?

As long as there was the world and there was “me” in it, there was separation.

Yes, except there was never a "me" that was could be found to be separate was there?

But once the idea of “me” disappeared, it immediately became obvious that everything is one and that everything comes from the same source.

This is great! However, did the idea of "me" actually disappear, except as thought, and thoughts arise and disappear all the time? So was it ever more than a thought/idea coming and going, an appearance amongst other appearances?

I also feel like I finally understood why “nothing” is more fundamental than “something.” It’s because the whole world arises out of nothing. Everything outside of consciousness doesn’t exist, and when consciousness disappears, like during sleep, that “nothing” becomes total. That’s basically the fundamental state of reality.

It is helpful for the mind to be able to understand, but anything understood intellectually can undermine the immediacy of direct experience. We have to use words like 'nothing' or 'no-thing' but they are pointers on the way and so any 'thing' named, including the label 'nothing' must constantly be verified in direct experience.

What is 'nothing' in your direct experience? Is it knowable as a thing, how is it for you? Is it fixed in any way?
Can anything be found that is separate from what is appearing in your direct experience.
Can you find some other words for this 'nothing" that appears to be more fundamental than all the "somethings?

Everything outside of consciousness doesn't exist.

Can any actual 'things' ever be found to exist other than as thoughts interpreting direct experience?
In conventional reality, we can close the door of our home, and expect to return to everything inside the home being in the same place as we remembered it before we left. This is all memory, arising NOW (do you remember the memory exercise?

....and when consciousness disappears, like during sleep, that “nothing” becomes total. That’s basically the fundamental state of reality.

Again this is a good conclusion to come up with, but it has nothing to do with what you are actually experiencing.
Please let go of theories, keep it simple, keep returning to your direct experience.

Please answer each question separately from your direct experience:

If I were to ask you to stand up and take a step towards your self, where would you go?

What is it that senses the feeling of me?
Whatever that is, and whatever it senses, are they separate?
Where is that which senses located?
Where is that feeling of me located?
Is that 'feeling of me' or 'sense of me' permanent?
If not, does it come and go?
If it can't be found, where does it go?
What knows it's gone?
If the self is the 'me' and then it disappears, how can a 'you' still be here?
Were 'you' ever here?

THOUGHTS ABOUT AN "I" OR A "ME" ARE STILL GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT
Does that thought "ME" or "I" refer back to anything at all?

Stay curious!

Warm wishes,
Rowena

[Idk]

Hi Rowena,
sorry for replying so late, i had my reasons. i hope these answers are satisfactory, even though i haven’t reached the understanding that the “i” can’t be found and that there is no “i.”

What is this "I" that can expect or not expect? Where is it to be found?

In thoughts and sensations.

In your direct experience, can a sense of "me" come back? Was it ever there in the first place?
Please investigate this sense of "me" carefully. To what does it refer?

i realized that it still leads back to sensations in the body, specifically sensations around the face. when i start thinking from the perspective of “myself,” my attention shifts more toward the face area. when i’m just living without thinking about any “me,” that feeling doesn’t appear at all. it’s there, but my attention just doesn’t go there.

Yes, except there was never a "me" that was could be found to be separate was there?

honestly, i don’t know, and i can’t answer that question from direct experience because i don’t have that understanding. but what i can say from direct experience is that the “i” is created by thoughts. i know that for 100%.

What is 'nothing' in your direct experience? Is it knowable as a thing, how is it for you? Is it fixed in any way?
Can anything be found that is separate from what is appearing in your direct experience.
Can you find some other words for this 'nothing" that appears to be more fundamental than all the "somethings?

1. There is no nothingness in direct experience.
2. No, it can’t be known as something.
3. Nothingness doesn’t exist, so i guess it isn’t fixed.
4. No, nothing is separate from direct experience.
5. Something that doesn’t exist in any form, something that you can’t say anything about because it isn’t “something.”

Can any actual 'things' ever be found to exist other than as thoughts interpreting direct experience?

objectively, no.

If I were to ask you to stand up and take a step towards your self, where would you go?

i didn’t quite understand the question.

What is it that senses the feeling of me?
Whatever that is, and whatever it senses, are they separate?
Where is that which senses located?
Where is that feeling of me located?
Is that 'feeling of me' or 'sense of me' permanent?
If not, does it come and go?
If it can't be found, where does it go?
What knows it's gone?
If the self is the 'me' and then it disappears, how can a 'you' still be here?
Were 'you' ever here?

1. no one/nothing feels this sense of self.
2. no.
3. it’s not located anywhere; everything happens in direct experience.
4. physically, it’s in the facial area.
5. no.
6. yes, it comes and goes.
7. nowhere, but i haven’t fully understood yet that this “i” can’t be found.
8. nothing.
9. i can’t.
10. i don’t know, i genuinely don’t know.

[Noro]

Hi Idk,

sorry for replying so late, i had my reasons. i hope these answers are satisfactory, even though i haven’t reached the understanding that the “i” can’t be found and that there is no “i.”

That's OK (for replying late!!). YOU WILL NEVER REACH THE UNDERSTANDING! There is no separate 'you' to understand or not understand. In language, I will write to an APPARENT you, but it is empty, it is unfound and unfindable as am "I" and so therefore one could say that it is emptiness writing these word and reading these words to itself.

"I haven't reached the understanding that "I" cant be found and that there is no "I".

What appears to be being said is: "I can't understand why "I" can't be found, and "I" can't understand that there is no "I".
My suggestion is to go into the feeling of this non-understanding. It is a huge paradigm shift, there is a lot of energy in this and it is hard for old patterning to let go. The self-system thrives on knowing and understanding and the system is being hacked!

What is it that senses the feeling of me?

1. no one/nothing feels this sense of self.

Take away the labels 'no one/nothing' and what is left?.
What is it that senses the feeling of me after all labels are dropped?
Can it be known or understood? Yes /No?

Were 'you' ever here?

10. i don’t know, i genuinely don’t know.

I sense your confusion.
But can you allow yourself to BE WITH this confusion?
How does if feel to 'not know?' Go there. Go into the body.
What is felt?
What other thoughts are arising regarding this apparent refusal to believe what direct experience is pointing to

Keep reporting back to me.

Warmly,

Rowena

[Idk]

Hi Rowena,

Take away the labels 'no one/nothing' and what is left?.

just the feeling itself

What is it that senses the feeling of me after all labels are dropped?

Only the feeling itself remains.

Only the feeling itself remains.

No

But can you allow yourself to BE WITH this confusion?
How does if feel to 'not know?' Go there. Go into the body.
What is felt?

It’s a slightly pressuring feeling, a little tense. Nothing extreme, but it’s just there somewhere in the background.

What other thoughts are arising regarding this apparent refusal to believe what direct experience is pointing to

Thoughts that I need to keep searching, that I need to find this "understanding"

[Noro]

Hi Idk,

How does if feel to 'not know?' Go there. Go into the body.
What is felt?

It’s a slightly pressuring feeling, a little tense. Nothing extreme, but it’s just there somewhere in the background.

In your direct experience what does that mean? It sounds very vague to me.
Direct experience of feelings/body sensations is 100%, If thoughts arise, see them as a diversion away from fully feeling and return to the sensations in the body.

What other thoughts are arising regarding this apparent refusal to believe what direct experience is pointing to

Thoughts that I need to keep searching, that I need to find this "understanding"

This searching, this seeking, this need...... to find "this" understanding.
What is seeking? RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW?
What is missing? RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW?
What if all this needing, this searching, all this seeking is all about fleeing from what is here now?

There is no need without lack
There is no lack, without a feeling of lack.
Go into the body,
Go into the feeling, and stay with the feeling. Give it 100% attention.
The thoughts are interpretations, they are pointers to what is needing to be felt.

Is there anything to be found in the sensation to suggest something is lacking, however intense the sensation?Can you BE WITH this looping of thoughts and sensations.
Is there a controller of thinking?
Can a thought need something?
Can a sensation need something?

Stay with it......
Let me know how it goes.

Warm regards,
Rowena