Stuck in memory

[Cedarwood]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
In immediate experience there is no independent entity referring back to a "self". All evidence exists in thoughts and memories as a story built on childhood conditioning.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have had numerous glimpses and realisations that has since been conceptualised by the mind which has lead to doubt and confusion. Any attempts to look again with a beginners mind is quite difficult with these experiences to recall. I think there are some fixations or sticky points that I may be overlooking that I would really appreciate a realised mentor to help me see.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be challenged and held accountable in my experiencing where if I were to continue to pursue alone, usually ends up in concept or memory. To help push me beyond my limits and point out what I could be assuming or unseen in my experience.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Its been a couple of years starting out with meditation and breath work. Then I started following Angelo DiLullo and followed his self enquiry videos which really rocked the foundation of my world. I read Angelos book "awake" then went on to read the three pillars of Zen, Eckart Tolle, Jeff foster, Gateless gatecrashers, Loch Kelly, Adyashanti to name a few. I also see a Psychologist who I am grateful for being quite open and realised who has helped me along the way. With him I have also done EMDR and internal family systems. Internal family systems has helped me understand my conditioning and reactive parts and I still practice it daily. Through this I have directly touched the innocence within me that I understood is in everyone. Breath work and meditation are also still daily practice.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

I have also done a lot of BreathWork. I'm familiar with the other guides you mentioned. Glmpses are helpful. but try to avoid comparison to now.

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Cedarwood]

Hi Stacy

Lovely to meet you, thank you very much for your time. I am extremely greatful you have offered to be my guide.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Adele and I am on Australian Eastern Standard Time (GMT+10), and you?

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Thank you for this. very appropriate for my journey at the moment. Since I first posted and have been waiting my practice was already moving towards investigating beliefs and I picked up some interest from Byron Katie on how to go about this (please let me know if you want me to put this down for now). I also noticed after the numerous expansions and contractions that fighting them was making me feel worse and have trusted the process more. I can let go, this is playing out on its own.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

Confirmed read and agreed.

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

Confirmed read and agreed.

How will life change?

Before my glimpses I had a completely different expectations. But if it's ok and appropriate here to touch on what was experienced for me in those "glimpse" instances is It will feel contented and connected. Everything happening as one whole connected organism. Life will feel closer and familiar, like a belonging. Its really hard to explain as its not really experienced as anything in defining words so this is my interpretation of it and perhaps thats whats holding me back, who knows. In all honesty and trying to be vulnerable here, that's the expectation that currently sits with me.

How will you change?

I don't really see how I will change honestly. My journey so far started out that way - that I was broken and needed to be fixed. But it's leading me more to self compassion and understanding. Having said that any self sabotage beliefs I have found along the way has served me to see and changed some patterns in my life. I don't see myself or anyone else as a problem or "bad" but as a previous chronic people pleaser holding my boundary and upsetting others in doing so is seen from a larger perspective and it all serves a purpose as a whole. So perhaps to summarise I really don't know, and I feel strapped in for the ride.

What will be different?

Im struggling a little on this one. I don't want to down play whats going on and whats happening to me over the past couple of years and sound too unrealistic. I don't know why this process started and I can theorise, but I truly feel it's not about what I want to be different. Maybe nothing, maybe everything im just trying to stay open to it and not to get in the way. It is a bit daunting sometimes. I will add; the end of seeking.

What is missing?

Resolve. The clarity if it ever becomes permanent.

I look forward to working with you, and much gratitude.

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome. Byron Katie is excellent. You can continue with that. We just don't want you getting confused with other methods if they conflict.

Your expectations are pretty reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Cedarwood]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Everything comes through the door. At first touching it, I cried a lot. Grief but in awe of "Adele". She's every much a part of whatever this is. It felt like she self sacrificied to lead me here. But, I see it never was "Adele" and with that same sentiment I feel disorientation to where im going. I started out with conviction that I was pursuing this, but now it's like it's taking a life of its own.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, thank you.

That question checks for fears only fear and expectation can keep you from seeing that there is no separate self and never has been.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks



There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.



Here is an example to illustrate the difference:



If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:



• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.



• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!



Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.



For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.



Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that



We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..



Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Cedarwood]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, I am clear on how to look at direct experience.

Looking forward to your pointers, Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Cedarwood]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Driving Home

Seeing the landscape, simply = image/colour
Feeling the firm steering wheel, simply = sensation
Hearing the rumble of the engine, simply = sound
Thought about doing this noticing practice, simply = thought

Gathering Firewood

Seeing fireplace, simply = image/colour
Thought about more firewood, simply = thought
Feeling the cool air outside, simply = sensation
Smelling the cut timber logs, simply = smell
Hearing the crackling fire, simply = sound

Wine

Feeling the cool glass, simply = sensation
Seeing the bubbles in the glass, simply = Image/colour
Tasting the wine, simply = taste
Hearing the bubbles fizz, simply = sound
Thought about conversation earlier today, simply = thought

I enjoyed this exercise. I hope it's ok some are not in the exact same order as the example. My nose is a little sniffly and congested at the moment due to allergies so sorry theres not a whole lot of examples of the smell sense.

Thank you Stacy, looking forward to your next response :)

[Anastacia42]

Good.. Order is not important. Format is & you got that right.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[Cedarwood]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Yeah wow, very simple but effective pointer to sit on. At first it's noticed considerably how adding the "I" beforehand is additional and unnecessary. It really sticks out how it feels like an extra bit of "something" to the experience and that "something" isn't actually present in the experience itself. So I'm going to go with the second half of the experience as being truer (dropping the "I am" from the experiences)

2. What is here without labels?

Sounds, Image, sensation. With the purpose of using language and labels to describe..

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Ive sat on this one a bit. Gone back and forth through experiencing both ways. Dropping the "I am" seemingly makes the experience feel closer. Its cleaner. When I add in the "I am" it feels like an extra step, a bit of a buffer or a delay. Like a glass wall.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

This was surprising. I felt a subtle sharp pull in my upper abdomen with every "I am" as opposed to labelling the experience without it. It feels a bit anxious or uneasy. Like it carries a lot of weight or responsibility to it. When experiencing without the "I am" it had a lighter feeling to it. Also, when I label an experience for example; "I am looking at the plant" It feels like im looking at it from higher up in the body. It's almost like when I say "I am" attention goes up to my head or around my eyes and then goes to the object. But when I experience "looking at the plant" it doesn't do that. It's like it's just seen from the middle of where I am in the body or general space I occupy. This elaborates on what I said before about it feeling cleaner in the experience. And the "I am" felt more dynamic unecessarily.

That was really useful. Im still going to enjoy exploring this. I'll also add, subtley I find the experience in the visual to be crisper or clearer with the simplified statement.

Thank you, very gracious for your time.

[Anastacia42]

Excellent answers. On #3 you're given 2 choices.i think you understand that the labels only describe.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Cedarwood]

On #3 you're given 2 choices.i think you understand that the labels only describe.

You're right, thanks for highlighting that. I'll be more vigilant on this.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

Referring to a lie I told my son recently when I forgot to visit the donut truck that visits our town once a week for his anticipated treat. I told him they weren't there that week due to an event.."sorry, they weren't in *our town* this week"

Contraction in the solar plexus. It's a tightness that feels tingly and warm. It expands or travels out with the peak of the intensity in the solar plexus and then simultanously travels to the gut and in the opposite direction to the heart.

Some tightness/pressure in the shoulders.

I noticed using a lie I told a loved one made the sensations most observable as opposed to a nonsense or made up one. Im still experimenting with this. I still feel a slight contraction in the solar plexus but seemingly doesn't seem to travel out as far or at all.

As always, much appreciated.

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome. Good. That "contraction in the solar plexus" is what you want to notice.

So now, here's another aspect.

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with something called "reality." But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like "good" and "bad" are inherent characteristics of "things." But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?


Loving,

[Cedarwood]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Visual/colour + Thought/label (red and green)

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Visual/colour is experienced. "Red" colour is experienced as thought/concept. "Green" is experienced as a thought/concept.

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

They do not. They are not present in actual & direct experience of seeing

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Yes - same experience (non changing), different label.

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

No it is not an inherent attribute of the direct experience by any substratum. Its just a label within the visual experince.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

The colour is the same, the label changes. But the colour/visual does not change.

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

No. It is just visual/colour + thought (good/bad)

I hope I wasn't being too literal with my answers! This took way longer than I anticipated to be sure. Either way, i'm here to learn through your wisdom and guidance - thank you.