10,000Things

[poppyseed]

Hi Kristine
This is wonderful looking. What stands out is not the answer but the process that lead to it.
You sat with the discomfort, you looked, and it softened. There was no fixing, solving, or replacing one belief with another involved - just looking. This sentence feels especially important:

That I am in some way dependent upon her having a self.

Notice how different that is from: "The dog has a self."
The discomfort seems to have revealed an assumption about relationship rather than an actual self in the dog.

No essential difference is found.

Just sit with that. There is no need to turn it into a philosophy or to decide what it means.
You looked for a self here and there and none was found. And yet affection remains. Care and love are still here. Interesting… Perhaps what softened was not the relationship, but an assumption about what relationship requires. Look!
Does love actually require two separate selves?
When you pet your dog, where exactly is the love located? Is it in you? Is it in the dog?
Is it travelling between two separate entities? Can such a thing be found? Or is there simply warmth, affection, tenderness, connection appearing? Notice that none of those seem to require a separate self. The thought may say: "I love my dog." But before the sentence appears, what is actually present?
That may be worth sitting with all by itself.

There is nothing to be disappointed about.

Beautiful, but not because it is the correct answer - because it seems to have arisen naturally from looking. Maybe the disappointment came from assuming that if no self were found, something important would be lost?
Yet what seems to be happening? Is anything essential missing? Or are colours still appearing? Sounds still appearing? Affection still appearing? Care still appearing?
Life still appearing?
No need to answer. Just notice.

Where is it? What is it made of?

Around the vicinity of her head, only my thought-feeling though

Look at how interesting that is. Why the head? What was expected to be there? What was supposed to be found there?
Sit with this gently – not as an exercise but just as something to notice.

For now, I would leave all of this alone. You have an art deadline. Paint. Live. Let the inquiry rest for a few days. What has been seen will still be here afterward.
Love
Rali

[DurangoK]

Dearest Rali,

Does love actually require two separate selves?

No, there is still love without that

When you pet your dog, where exactly is the love located? Is it in you? Is it in the dog?

The love is everywhere, with a little tuggy feeling around my chest/neck.

Is it travelling between two separate entities? Can such a thing be found? Or is there simply warmth, affection, tenderness, connection appearing?

Only the nice feelings appearing.

Notice that none of those seem to require a separate self. The thought may say: "I love my dog." But before the sentence appears, what is actually present?

That was more tricky but the love is there before the thought appears. I will sit with that more

Maybe the disappointment came from assuming that if no self were found, something important would be lost?

Yes, definitely.

Y

et what seems to be happening? Is anything essential missing? Or are colours still appearing? Sounds still appearing? Affection still appearing? Care still appearing? Life still appearing?

Everything is still the same, quite wonderful to find

Why the head? What was expected to be there? What was supposed to be found there?

The head because it’s where she seems to gaze out at me from with such love. Like there was supposed to be a little self there! It’s so funny, yet in memory it’s still there and in DE it’s not. Will look more.

How lovely. Thank you.

Love K

[poppyseed]

Hi Kristine
This is beautiful. What keeps standing out is that something was expected to be lost. Yet nothing essential seems to be missing.

Everything is still the same, quite wonderful to find.

Yes. Love is still here. Beauty is still here. Life is still here. Only the little imagined owner seems difficult to find.

The head because it's where she seems to gaze out at me from with such love.

Let's look very carefully. When your dog looks at you, what is actually found?
Before any interpretation, are there eyes, a gaze, a little someone behind the eyes?
Or are there simply colours and sensations (e.g. “warmth”) appearing?
Where did that expectation come from?

There was supposed to be a little self there!

Can a little self actually be found behind the eyes? Not in your dog, in another person, or in yourself. Can one be found anywhere? Or is it a wonderfully persistent story?
That made me smile. Look carefully at that image - a little self inside the head, looking out through the eyes, receiving love, giving love.
And yet... The tail still wags. The eyes still meet. The warmth is still there.
So perhaps the love was never coming from a little self, looking out through the eyes, in the first place. Perhaps the self was simply being credited for something it never produced.
The little self cannot be found, but neither can the loss that was feared.
Just look. When your dog looks at you, what is actually present before thought says "she is looking at me"?

The love is there before the thought appears.

Yes, stay with that. Not because it proves anything, but because it is direct. You don't need to answer, what is there before all commentary. Just notice - there is something very simple here - nothing essential seems to have been lost. And that is worth appreciating.
Love
Rali

[DurangoK]

Dear Rali,

Thank you for the fun response.

When your dog looks at you, what is actually found? Before any interpretation, are there eyes, a gaze, a little someone behind the eyes? Or are there simply colours and sensations (e.g. “warmth”) appearing?

I see only colors and shapes, yet a love feeling is present too.

Where did that expectation come from?

What I think is that it came from a lifetime of conditioning, but what I experience directly is that it came from nowhere.

Can a little self actually be found behind the eyes?

No

Can one be found anywhere? Or is it a wonderfully persistent story?

There are no little selves anywhere, but the story is/was wonderfully persistent! I will look around at other humans this evening and see what I find.

Much love,
K

[poppyseed]

Hi Kristine
Wonderful!

There are no little selves anywhere, but the story is/was wonderfully persistent!

Yes. That little one behind the eyes has been taken for granted for so long that it can feel almost funny when it can't actually be found

What I experience directly is that it came from nowhere.

Notice how different that feels from an explanation. It doesn't try to tell a story. It simply reports what is found.

This evening, as you suggested, simply look at people - not to prove or disprove anything. Just notice. When someone smiles, when someone speaks, when someone laughs... Does a little entity ever become visible? Or are there simply expressions (colours), sounds, movements (colours/sensations) and thoughts describing them?
And then look back here. Is it any different?

Earlier you discovered something that I think is easy to overlook - the little self couldn't be found, yet nothing essential disappeared. Perhaps that is the quiet surprise in all of this. The self was never carrying life. Life was always carrying the story of the self.
Enjoy your evening. No need to search for anything special. Just notice what is actually here.

Distance. Time. Sound. Really anything I’m asked to look deeply at might be helpful, but especially distance.

In the next days, when you have time to explore more - one last area you mentioned being curious about was sound.
Let's have a look. Sit quietly for a few minutes and simply listen. Perhaps to birds, traffic, the refrigerator, the washing machine, or whatever sounds are present. Don't analyse, just listen.
Can a hearer actually be found? Or is there simply hearing - no subjects or object (e.g. discrete sounds) just never ending/ever changing hearing?
Now look at the sound itself.
Is the sound inside? Outside? Between the ears?
At the washing machine?
Or are those ideas added by thought?
Can the location of the sound actually be found? Or is there simply sound?
Notice whether sound travels.
Can movement of sound itself be found? Or is there simply changing sound?
Where does a sound begin? Where does it end? Can an actual boundary be found? Or is the beginning and ending only inferred?
Just report what you find. No need to reach any conclusion.
Love
Rali

[DurangoK]

Dear Rali,

I waited on sound and people for Kirtan last night, it was divine.

Does a little entity ever become visible? Or are there simply expressions (colours), sounds, movements (colours/sensations) and thoughts describing them?

Is it any different?
No entities became visible, only colors, sounds, movement, some thoughts, and a heart and throat feeling.

Can a hearer actually be found? Or is there simply hearing - no subjects or object (e.g. discrete sounds) just never ending/ever changing hearing?

There was no hearer there, or here. Only hearing.

I

s the sound inside? Outside? Between the ears?
At the washing machine?
Or are those ideas added by thought?

The sound is/was everywhere, often everything.

Can the location of the sound actually be found? Or is there simply sound?

Simply sound, not a location. Like with distance there was no distance ever. Now with the dryer still no distance.

Can movement of sound itself be found? Or is there simply changing sound?

Mostly the sound was simply changing sound, but there was an interesting phenomenon last night where the sound from the singing bowls seemed to alternate from one side of my head to the other.

Where does a sound begin? Where does it end? Can an actual boundary be found? Or is the beginning and ending only inferred?

Sound seems continual with no beginning or end. Any end appears inferred.

So fun, this.

Thank you
LK

[poppyseed]

Hi Kristine
This was a joy to read. There is a lightness in your looking now.
A couple of things caught my attention:

The sound was everywhere, often everything.

Just have one more look at that.
When you say "everywhere," is that actually found? Or is "everywhere" another way of saying that no location can be found?
There is a subtle difference.
If no location can be found, does the sound need to be everywhere? Or is there simply sound, with no location at all?
No need to answer quickly. Just notice.

Mostly the sound was simply changing sound, but there was an interesting phenomenon last night where the sound from the singing bowls seemed to alternate from one side of my head to the other.

Wonderful observation. Now look even more closely.
Did the sound itself move? Or did thoughts interpret changing sound as movement from side to side?
Let's look at that a little more closely. Without referring to the idea of a head...
Can a "left side" and a "right side" actually be found in hearing itself? Or do those appear as thoughts about the sound?
Did the sound itself move? Or was there simply changing sound?
Can movement actually be heard? Or is movement inferred from changing appearances?
And one final thing.

from one side of my head...

Can a head actually be found in hearing?
Just notice what is actually present.
Without opening your eyes and referring to memory...
Where is the centre from which "left" and "right" are being measured? Can that centre actually be found? Or is it assumed?
Can hearing itself tell you: "This sound is to the left" or "This sound is to the right"? Or does thought organize hearing around an imagined reference point called "my head"?
Don't think about it. Just listen.
Can a centre of hearing actually be found? Or is there simply hearing?
Love
Rali

[DurangoK]

Dear Rali,

When you say "everywhere," is that actually found? Or is "everywhere" another way of saying that no location can be found?

I knew you would tag me on that :-). It’s hard to say it how it is. But paring it down it’s like sound is all, but location-less, no distance.

If no location can be found, does the sound need to be everywhere? Or is there simply sound, with no location at all?

“Everywhere” is a figment of the mind.

Did the sound itself move? Or did thoughts interpret changing sound as movement from side to side?

Tough one. Sound doesn’t seem to move except in thought. I wish I could replicate the experiment at home, but I can say that I looked hard at that aspect and it literally felt like a sound switching back and forth. It made no sense but was enjoyable.

Let's look at that a little more closely. Without referring to the idea of a head...
Can a "left side" and a "right side" actually be found in hearing itself? Or do those appear as thoughts about the sound?

Only thoughts about sound. That’s why I kept looking at that experience.

Did the sound itself move? Or was there simply changing sound?

Only changing sound.

Can movement actually be heard? Or is movement inferred from changing appearances?

Inferred from changing appearances. Cool. The sound didn’t move it just changed.

Can a head actually be found in hearing?

No, definitely not

Without opening your eyes and referring to memory...
Where is the centre from which "left" and "right" are being measured? Can that centre actually be found? Or is it assumed?

No center.

Can hearing itself tell you: "This sound is to the left" or "This sound is to the right"? Or does thought organize hearing around an imagined reference point called "my head"?

Only thought does that.

Don't think about it. Just listen.
Can a centre of hearing actually be found? Or is there simply hearing?

No center.

I will listen for the back and forth again in a couple of weeks so I can get clear on it.

Mahalo nui loa,
LK

[poppyseed]

Hi Kristine,
Wonderful. I smiled at this:

I knew you would tag me on that.

😊 And just to say, what we are doing here is really about a shift in perception, so it matters that no illusions are left unexamined or quietly turned into something special.

What I notice is that you no longer seem interested in arriving at the "right" answer. Instead, you keep returning to looking. That's the important part.

I will listen for the back and forth again in a couple of weeks so I can get clear on it.

I like that you're not trying to force the singing bowl experience into a conclusion. If it happens again, wonderful. If it doesn't, that's fine too. The point was never to prove anything. It was simply to see what is actually present.
Early on there was a lot of trying to understand. Now there is simply looking. That is a lovely shift.

Before we continue, I'd like to pause and hear from you. Looking back over the last weeks:
What has changed, if anything?
What has not changed?
Is there anything that still feels confusing or unresolved?
Is there anywhere that a separate self still seems to hide?
Does anything in daily life still seem to depend on there being a separate "me"?
Is there any expectation that something more should happen?
Don't worry about giving the "right" answers. I'm interested only in what is actually being found now. There are no certificates handed out at the end. Seeing through the illusion of a separate self is wonderfully ordinary. Life continues, and conditioning may continue to unwind. The invitation isn't to arrive somewhere else, but to keep looking whenever a belief, assumption or sense of separation appears. That is where this inquiry becomes truly fruitful. Whenever something is looked at directly... The imagined “reality” quietly disappears - not because it has been removed, but because it cannot be found. Just keep noticing.
Take your time. There is no rush.
Love
Rali

[DurangoK]

Dear Rali,

What has changed, if anything?

Nothing has changed but things are sometimes seen differently. I stop here and there during the day when triggered to look closer, hear closer, feel directly (emotional stuff included). Then there’s an “oh yeah, that’s how things are” moment.

What has not changed?

Still going about life in a normal functioning way.

Is there anything that still feels confusing or unresolved?

As far as what we have been going over here, probably, but other than the singing bowls can’t find it now.

Is there anywhere that a separate self still seems to hide?

Sometimes there is sleep anxiety. I try to look closely but get very mind attached in the middle of the night when excited or worried about the next day. Try to shift that to body and senses but return immediately to mind. It has limited me for years.

Does anything in daily life still seem to depend on there being a separate "me"?

I’m not sure. Not depend. But maybe I grasp for one when in an uncomfortable social situation with groups who I don’t have much in common with.

Is there any expectation that something more should happen?

It's not an expectation but a desire to experience things directly always.

LK

[poppyseed]

Dear Kristine
Thank you. Reading your responses over the past weeks, what stands out most is not the content of the answers, but the way they arise now. Earlier there was more trying to understand. Now there is simply looking. That is a significant shift.

Nothing has changed but things are sometimes seen differently.

I like that. Life hasn't become something else. Rather, there is a growing willingness to stop, look and notice what is actually here instead of immediately believing the story about it. Like:

Then there's an 'oh yeah, that's how things are' moment.

Beautifully ordinary. No fireworks required.

Sometimes there is sleep anxiety. I try to look closely but get very mind attached in the middle of the night when excited or worried about the next day. Try to shift that to body and senses but return immediately to mind. It has limited me for years.

With respect to sleep anxiety and social situations, I wouldn't expect conditioning to suddenly disappear. Thoughts, emotions and old habits may still arise. The difference is that they can now be recognised for what they are rather than automatically believed. Sleep anxiety is conditioned physiology as much as thought.
Notice whether a self is required for anxious thoughts to arise.

maybe I grasp for one when in an uncomfortable social situation with groups who I don’t have much in common with.

That is interesting. The next time that happens, don't try to stop it. Simply look.
What exactly is being grasped?
Can the separate self that is being reached for actually be found?
Or is there simply a familiar habit appearing?

It's not an expectation but a desire to experience things directly always.

Look carefully at that.
Is there ever anything other than direct experience?
Even when thoughts are racing, when anxiety appears, when attention seems completely absorbed., isn't that too simply what is appearing?
Perhaps what changes is not that direct experience comes and goes, but whether thoughts are recognised as thoughts.
As I said in my previous post, the invitation isn't to arrive somewhere else, but to keep looking whenever a belief, assumption or sense of separation appears. That is where this inquiry becomes truly fruitful.
Love
Rali

[DurangoK]

Dear Rali,

Notice whether a self is required for anxious thoughts to arise.

It doesn’t seem like there is ever a separate self, but that doesn’t stop anxiety from arising. It arose last night and I saw it as only anxiety rather than buying into the thought content. While watching the thought content. Then again today, which is very unusual. I argued with it a little that time but it passed anyway. There was belief in separate self.

What exactly is being grasped?

Thought’s idea of how it wants the intellect and the body to be perceived by others.

Can the separate self that is being reached for actually be found?

No

Or is there simply a familiar habit appearing?

Yes, definitely could be! It seems like there is difficulty accessing brain in certain ways and thought says that’s not desirable. I thought it was neurologic but could just as easily be habit. Interesting.

Is there ever anything other than direct experience?

It’s always DE even if mind is trying to make a separate self.

Even when thoughts are racing, when anxiety appears, when attention seems completely absorbed., isn't that too simply what is appearing?

Yes. Then only a matter of paying attention.
Absorbing this. Thank you.

Love K