Hi Lanie,
I’m really sorry to hear about your student. That’s a lot. No need to minimize that or rush past it. Sadness comes, tenderness comes, shock comes, exhaustion comes — and, as you saw, none of it is continuous. It appears, moves, disappears, returns. No owner needed.
And yes, what you wrote here is very clear:
The suffering that is happening in this moment is pretty minor. It’s manageable. Sometimes there is sadness, for my student, for her family, whom I know well. But it is sensations and thoughts. And then sometimes, there are other experiences and the sadness is gone. It’s been clear that the sadness is not continuous; it comes and goes.
Exactly. This doesn’t make grief unimportant. It doesn’t make care disappear. It simply shows that the imagined continuous sufferer is not actually found. There is sadness when sadness is here. There is thought when thought is here. There is work, care, response, rest, fatigue.
But where is the one who owns the whole timeline?
I saw it before too, but was shocked (mad?) that… that’s it.
Yes. That reaction is very common. The mind expects something grand, conclusive, impressive, something worthy of all the seeking. Then the seeing is almost offensively simple… No self can be found. Thoughts arise. Sensations arise. Life happens. The “me” is added in thought.
That’s it.
But the disappointment, anger, “surely there must be more”, those are also just appearances. Weather. They don’t invalidate the seeing.
I’m curious what comes next… I’ve heard teachers talk about a constant unwinding, and I can see how that is happening, slowly under the surface.
Yes, there can be ongoing unwinding. Seeing through the separate self is not the end of all conditioning. It is more like the main knot being seen for what it is. After that, many smaller knots become easier to spot: time, control, responsibility, guilt, shame, fear, relationships, “others,” the body, awareness, and so on. But the mechanism is the same each time… A sensation appears. A thought appears. A story forms. “Mine” gets added. A self seems to exist. Then it’s looked at, and the structure loosens. As for what comes next: nothing special.
Life. And when identification shows up, look. Not as a project, not as homework, not as self-improvement. Just simple checking.
How long ago did you break the first fetter, and what came next for you? (You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to - I’m just nosy). Did it continue to just unwind or was there deliberate practice?
You’re not being nosy. :)
For me, after the first clear seeing (8-9y ago), there was definitely no final trumpet sound. I was also mad and disappointed. There was a ton of doubt. But life continued. Doubt was seen as just thoughts about doubt. Thoughts continued. Old conditioning continued. But something fundamental had changed - there was certainty about “no Rali”, and after that, many patterns began showing themselves more clearly. There was both unwinding and deliberate looking. Not deliberate in the sense of “I must fix myself,” but more like
curiosity whenever life presented a contraction. Real life became the practice — relationships, irritation, fear, grief, responsibility, control. Each time something got sticky, the same question applied:
There is no "Rali", so what is this?
And again and again, what was found was sensation, thought, story, conditioning, but no owner. So yes, there can be “deliberate practice”, but not as a project to improve a self. More like gentle, honest looking when life lights up the next hidden belief.
What is really happening?
The unfolding continues. There is no finish line. But the basic illusion doesn’t need to be solved again and again; it’s more that its echoes are seen in more places.
Now yes, let’s give the checkpoint questions another go.
Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
No rush. Let the answers come from looking, not from memory or “right answers.”
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti
