good place

[daisyrain]

What is that doer feelig? ... get cozy with it

WOW, SUCH A GOOD POINTING

[graceabounds]

Was thinking to reply but will give you some more time with the inquiries you are looking at right now…

:)

[daisyrain]

Thank you, I might need a day longer. I'm a mess right now

[daisyrain]

(about breaking the first fetter) What would it change now? Wouldn’t there just be another one all the way to 10 to focus on?

it certainly seems like a future thought / next-instead-of-now thought.

Some thoughts about archieving, or "passing" LU. conflicting thoughts around that anyway.
Some ideas of "I have to".

I'm not sure what it would change now.

I think I feel some doubt lingering somewhere here again.
Thoughts about "me not being up to the task" and "not clear enough".

Oh, there#s avoidant behaviour present :)

I'm not sure anything would change. I'm not even sure seeking would stop.

What is the discomfort in not knowing?
Sit with that.
What exactly feels threatened by uncertainty?

"Threatened" sparks some resonance.
warmth and tension in chest and throat and cheeks come as "discomfort".
tightness, which is just sensation around arm and hand joint.

I can't find a thing feeling threatened.
Doubt can be found, that interview about doubt might merit another round.

When you watch a scary movie, and know it is not real, do you experience fear anyway?

oh yeah

So most importantly what is this doer feeling that appears? Pin it down, get cozy with it… what is there?

Oh god, that doer feeling just kind of sucked me into,...? Oh I don't know, there's something immensely and scary and threateningly real and fast about it.

(another day)

the feeling is warmth and thought.

there's a "decider" feeling.
it comes with thought image of a blade somehow.
there is a tension, like a pulled string. sitting with it
"pulled string" turns to under-the-eyes, left leg, stomach.

oh.
the thought "what did I do here?" can appear without a believe in doership, just neutral.

feeling "pulled string" as an tension in chest and cheeks. lips.

sensation of area around right eye comes. a bit like a headache.

hm. doer-sensation. what is interpreted as that...

thoughts and assumptions about "moving away from target of contemplation" come, which is also a story.
so much story.

it feels a little like something is holding back from / pulling away from actually contemplating the possibility of no doer existing.

I can see some doing happening and then a thought coming clearly after the fact.
suprisingly really, that there's such a gap right now. (story, but I always seem to miss it)

oh
that story hints at doership. Which is interesting.

resting into direct experience of sight and the body there's a sense that it is tempting to assume doership.

thoughts implying doership ("okay, then I'm doing it") come occasionally.

[graceabounds]

Hi Nils,

Very good. Now come back here:

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Keep it up!
Becca

[daisyrain]

Becc Becc Becc, Helloooooo

thought laying over the action, after the action
immense body sensation / intensity felt (chest, foot)
noticing the exercise stopped being performed, a thought appears on top of that saying: "I stopped the exercise"

How is the movement controlled?

I almost can't believe what I see.
So, it's (not) controlled the way thought is (not) controlled; it just comes.

I mean, what i said; I almost can't believe that.
That's fascinating.

There's something "holding back".
hui, relaxing into that is, ... a lot.

Doubt comes as: "Is this just a thought?" (when not finding an doer or controller.)
"Can I even tackle this doubt?"

When really listening/noticing the thoughts to their ending, it's actually surprisingly clean.

So what is "I almost can't believe that."?
Thought: "that can't be"
Thought: "I know better than that"

it feels like there's something interpreted as "blindness" here, and there's an intuition it has to do with doubt.
Comes with great intensity working through the body (left leg again. What is it with you, left leg?)

Does a thought control it?

how would that be seen? right now, i can't find it.
I feel like in that sentence alone is that doubt.

woop. bodily sensation, intensity working through.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

no

also the body sensation of intensity working through is labeled as "this is almost too much" or plain "too much to handle".
intense exhaustion/tiredness now

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

it seems to work without decision.

this doesn't match my expectations.

in a way it's all "very silent" in the hand.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Hand just moved up.

I think there's an expectation, that "I would know", when all I get is observing.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

easy answer is no




sooooo.
Why is it so hard to take that as an answer?

[graceabounds]

Ask left leg.
Left leg knows...

I'm being serious.

Look there.

[daisyrain]

The sensation got much more integrated, flowing mich more graceful through the system.
It's a bit like theres a choke point around the hip, where the energy flow is held up.
By energy flow I really just mean intensity.
I have no idea what that means.

Maybe I should repeat that a little

[daisyrain]

Its real that somethings happening, and it's always an energetic response.
Doing it more often helps.
It's a bit like it helps keep the connection open :)
Sitting with it. There's a response in the heart.

I think I often worry that I'm forsaken for awakening. I think that's deep down something I worry about.

[graceabounds]

Can you trust the body?

Or asked another way, can thoughts take a back seat so this energy (which is direct experience) can lead?

What would hip like to say?
What wisdom is in and around the heart?

[daisyrain]

can we talk a little about what I'd describe as "blindness" here?
it's strange and not easy to find words about it.
it also takes some things.
I'm not sure what exactly about it is "blind".

Feeling into it, it is very bodily and mellow. (had to double check the meaning of the word, and it feels very fitting)

The sensation feels "right in front of my eyes" together with "I'm not directly looking at it, avoiding to really stare at it".
if course, non of it really the sensory experience physical eyes offer, so it's interesting, what this would mean.


it almost feels destructive to look at it. Not in a violent way, just that it "takes". Okay Becc, where am I here? I feel hints and intuitions as to what that all means.

Thought comes, that this is actually "not a nice thing to do". looking for a doer I am, again, confronted with blindness.
There's a sadness coming up and an (almost angry) resistance to that sadness. Like a soldier refusing to give up that resistance feels.

that blindness can (probably) almost be found available. as in the whole "right here right now" ordeal. it's always there.
about that word "probably". Intuitively I'm actually not really unsure. There's a doubt that can be dissected here.
Is it always here? I wouldn't know how to say "yes", I wouldn't know how to say that for certain, intuition however gives a faint answer. There's an energetic sensation, it's opening into the heart really.
Thoughts continue saying: "I wouldn't know how to proof this" / "this isn't proof however"

hm, it's kind of like that blindness is here "without me". Like I can't follow into the blindness and yet, it's here.

Okay. Right in front of my eyes. It's felt like a headache, without the hurt.
I'm afraid that all sensations will turn into this: "right in front of me", "avoided", "without me"
Part of that sentence is obviously thought. That fear is very bodily intense, working through.
It almost promises "hurt". That's really cruel, Becc. I don't know what to do, that's really not, oh oh boy. oh becc. it couldn't be weirder, I can almost feel you holding my hand a bit. not just almost, not just a bit.

a kind of painful (you know, not pain, but what that label points to) and unresolved crying comes.
In the unresolved parts I find the blindness.

there's sensation (shaky, trembling, jittery) feeling very vulnerable and afraid to be so, for writing that thing with the hand. Being very afraid of saying something stupid or ridiculous and "having some else being disgusted by me".

Yet all sensation here feels like a hug. Hard to accept though. There's struggle with accepting it, and there's the blindness in that as well.


Blindness, right in front of me.
feels like "left cheek", hands, right side of face,

something "shocked" in here.
that feels very blind.

there's resistance to the blindness. That same struggle with accepting it.

Actually, there's "terrified of accepting it" present.

bewildered thoughts like: "I can't believe this"

that feels like pulling the rug from under feet.

bewilderment

feeling that in my feet, in my entire body (upon asking feet), and also resistance to this.
asking the resistance; it's quite distraught.

There are thoughts coming about "next" moments. grateful they are seen as such.

Bewilderment and Blindness.

there's a bit labeled as "heart" coming up. The label doesn't quite fit upon inspection.
It's more like Jaw, but It's also moving.

Somethings nearing into this. Swimming closer to it. no idea what it is, but it's deep n the stomach.
it feels increasingly like this could kill me at every step.

asking the question of doer-ship here. met with resistance.

it think the sensations are just so close, it's scary.

Thoughts come now like: "I have lost the point" "I got lost" "I lost it"
blindness is available.
exhaustion is here. I'm not sure, if it's exhaustion really, or something that's been here since a looooooooooong time. almost fossilized.

there is a movement here about "being excited about that"
and about "I should hyper focus on this" and "it's not right, that I just stood up, and got myself soup" (it's good soup).

maybe that's all not so important




thank you for being here with me, becc :)

[daisyrain]

asking all that you wrote just fills me up

Can you trust the body?

Thought's can't give an answer to this (they surely try to 😄), and the body just invites. Sensation just invites.

Or asked another way, can thoughts take a back seat so this energy (which is direct experience) can lead?

Yeah, that seems to be more possible, than I assumed. There's doubt and fear about "getting this back". Clinging onto this openness. That is felt as tension, but it's also just like a penny dropped into the middle of the ocean, surrounded by more and more and more water, becoming less and less significant, as it sinks. Thought would very much like to argue that. And there's being afraid of falling for these arguments.

What would hip like to say?

oh yeah, there's something. Energetic movement, cradling the heart even.

What wisdom is in and around the heart?

That feels like a razor blade to the throat somehow. In a very hard to describe way.
There's a ringing in my ear and the image of the disorientation after a massive explosion.

The wisdom might be
"I am here".

This has to do something with acceptance.

yeah, there's a lot of wisdom in the heart, Becc.
Working through the body and coming and going like waves on the shore, taking with it as it retracts.

Also the intensity in the foot.

It seems to say: "Right here, right now".
Which is not the kind of conversation I expected to have with my left foot today, but okay.

[daisyrain]

there's a thought about being "infinity hurt". and a subtle sensation with it

[graceabounds]

Very good.

Keep letting the thoughts float by (or turn the big dial down on their volume or translate them to blah blah blah) and dive down into the sensation directly. No meaning needs to be made of the sensation. But it has wisdom.

Shaking is fine, jittering is fine, it is a discharge of energy.

it feels increasingly like this could kill me at every step.

This will not kill the body, I promise, it is just releasing.

yeah, there's a lot of wisdom in the heart, Becc.

Tell me more. (not with the mind)

[daisyrain]

well, it's coming over me like a wave.

the exhaustion is coming into focus, pushes in front of this, so I'll talk with that a little.


it feels a lot like listening is happening and being saturated, but I can't really tell anything about it.