Looping patterns of behaviour

[teddycolumbo]

When i tell a le
There is a tightening in my nose
More sensatons behind my eyes
Sinking sensation in my gut

inside my knees are wam

[Anastacia42]

Good. When it dawns on you there's no "self " you may get the opposite. We're looking for a shift in perception.

Now this:

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.

Loving,

[teddycolumbo]

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

I'm not sure if i understand this. The label sometimes has meaning. Green of nature. Red stop or danger. Both provoke different sensations. The label of themselves do not do anything. But by association give other meanings.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

' Good' and 'bad' labels are subjective. But then the label dangerous might mean reality?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Redness does not become good or bad. Although a change in colour might indicate bad, as fruit goes off it changes colour? But i dont think this is what you are asking.

Let me know what is SEEN.

I think i'm a little stuck here. I'm looking outside, it's dark, so the label is night. This is the reality to me, but i know that's a label.

The label is like a compressed file. I open up the label and extrapolate into a story. Much (If not all) of which is not true. It's all fictional narrative and infered assumptions.

What is seen?
Shapes, lines, colours, tones

How do i see without the labels?

[Anastacia42]

Yes. You're way overthinking this. It is very simple. You see red & the word green has no effect. Simple

How do i see without the labels?

Much clearer. You don't load a lot of baggage onto things.

A tree can just be what it is & not the tree my grandmother had that I climbed in & fell out of & blah blah blah.

Can you see that?

Loving,

[teddycolumbo]

Yes i see the tree
and i know the word 'tree' is a label. Plus as you mentioned, the story beind the tree is a label.

The tree is a shape with colours. With a permimeter or kind of boundary. If i try and strike it with my hand i will hit a hard surface. It has a boundary.
It has a smell.
If i called it a bush or a plant, it makes no difference to the reality. Just my thinking about it through labels.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Now let's bring it together.

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[teddycolumbo]

I can label the eperience i am having through senses, sight, smell, or thoughts to define my experience, but the rest is story.

the labels are not true, But true to me and my experience.

I think i can go with the single layer of label. But anymore, like the smell of the apple means this, or the sight of the apple is that, is subjective and abstract.

I can label direct experience, but all the other labels are not true,

[Anastacia42]

Where are the quoted questions with your answers underneath?

This will be particularly important at the end when we share answers with other guides.

Thank you,

[teddycolumbo]

Apple

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.
What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

I know there are sensations in my mouth and digestive system, taste and saliva. Sensations of physical contact in mouth.

Content of thoughts, type of apple, how long willl it take to eat, what is an apple? Lots! All cascading off in different directions. They are describing a stroy of the experience, rather than the experience itself.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

What is an apple? It is a ringfence of a concept (a ringfence that is never the same twice), that may contain lots of different things like sensations, nutrition, colour, weight, infotmation (like origin, type, age, etc). There is no fixed definition of an apple so it cannot be true. All i can know is the physical sensations experienced, the sights seen, the smell smelt, the taste tasted, and the thoughts arising.

[Anastacia42]

One question at a time, please. This will matter at the end & it matters to me now. I read these on my phone.

You were not asked "what is an apple. "

Please do this again.

Thank you.

[teddycolumbo]

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

Nothing is known for sure.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

This is an interpretation

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

An apple is a concept, so cannot exist in reality

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No

[Anastacia42]

Correct

We only need the question quoted. not b the explanatory material, but you're getting there.

So, how does it FEEL to see that there is non"apple?"


Loving

[teddycolumbo]

So, how does it FEEL to see that there is non"apple?"

I dont know how I feel. I have lots of thoughts.

[Anastacia42]

Yes. Ignore the thoughts & look for Sensations.

You can do this.

Loving,