Guidance

[Norm]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? That there is no doer, no one is in control, that life is unfolding and happening and that it is all experience experienced. I 'understand' it but I'm not sure I see it clearly.

What are you looking for at LU? To discuss and realise the clarity underneath all the layers of identity. To see through or beyond "I" and all the negative, and I suppose positive attachments to it. To move beyond the frustration so that great unfolding, falling etc can occur..

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Unmasking. Guidance to better see or un-see. There is still a lot of frustration. There are momentary glimpses of bliss in formal meditation practice but I know that is not the end goal. Is there an end goal?

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? On and off daily meditation practice for 5+years
I've watched videos and read a few books but I've become singularly focused on inquiry in the past few months.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 8

[Anastacia42]

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

First, why only 8 ?

There are momentary glimpses of bliss in formal meditation practice but I know that is not the end goal. Is there an end goal?

Yes & no.

Seeking will stop, for example, but seeing can come & go for a while.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Norm]

Hi Stacy, thank you and apologies for the late response. I was away but will be able to post/respond the every day or every other day going forward.

First, why only 8 ?

I would say at this point I am ready to go full steam ahead so I'm at a 10. I guess I put 8 because I'm not entirely sure what my beliefs about "self" are.

How will life change?

Life will be more peaceful and stress-free

How will you change?

I will have a calmer and more mindful presence

What will be different?

How I interact with others and the world around me. How I see the world... I'll be more present.

What is missing?

I don't know. Is something missing? It feels like there's a wall/barrier to take down/remove rather than something missing to add.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Norm
Eastern Standard Time


Thank you,
Norm

[Anastacia42]

Hi Norm

Welcome.

Your expectations are fairly reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[Norm]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

It's difficult to grasp. It feels like there is an I inside looking out... at others and the world. There are glimpses of "no self" in meditation or in certain activities when in deep focus or flow state. There is still an attachment to the self when doing things, talking, interacting etc... A part of me knows that this "story" that feels so real are all thoughts popping up and leaving their mark. The mark is strong... the subject/object relationship with others and the world is still strong and is hard to see through

[Anastacia42]

Thank you.

strong and is hard to see through

No, they are just a story. More thoughts. It is actually quite weak & easy to see through. Flimsy.



This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[Norm]

I believe I'm clear on it.

Looking for no self is a direct experience.

Direct experience is about what is seen, heard, felt, tasted, smelt...Actual reality around us,

Knowledge is formulated in the mind - thoughts working together and that plays no part here in what we're/I'm doing now


Thank you
Norm

[Anastacia42]

Exactly.

So, try this:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Norm]

The mind goes into autopilot and it's difficult to remember the practice. The strong sense of "I" dominates and everything feels like it's happening outside or to me so the direct experience becomes lost... if that makes sense. When I was able to remember and focus I recorded a few moments of direct experiences

Sitting at desk:
Typing and feeling fingers move across keyboard, pressing the keys
Seeing screen and room around me in my peripheral vision
Hearing the fan blades above
Feeling the breeze from the fan
Feeling the cool tiles under my feet

Coffee:
Hearing the coffee hit the cup when pouring
Smelling the fresh brew
Feeling the warmth of the cup against my palms
Tasting the warm liquid

Outside:
Feeling water form hose against my thumb
Hearing water hit leaves and soil
Seeing light and shadow around the yard
Feeling the warmth of the sun against my skin


Many thanks
Norm

[Anastacia42]

Okay.

Now rewrite it to match the example exactly as instructed.

The point is for the descriptive that we usually use to be first and then to notice which direct experience it is.

Loving

[Norm]

Hi Stacy
Ah ok, I hope below is correct format... contrasting direct experience and thoughts about said experience?


Typing and feeling fingers move across keyboard, simply = sensation
Seeing screen and room, simply = sight/image/color
Hearing the fan blades above, simply= sound
Feeling the breeze from the fan, simply = sensation
Thought about working at desk, simply = thought

Coffee:
Hearing the coffee hit the cup when pouring, simply = sound
Smelling the fresh brew, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the cup against my palms, simply = sensation
Tasting the warm liquid, simply = taste
Thought about morning coffee, simply = thought

Outside:
Feeling water, simply = sensation
Hearing water hit leaves and soil, simply = sound
Seeing light and shadow around the yard, simply sight/image/color
Feeling the warmth of the sun against my skin, simply=sensation
Thought about water garden, simply=thought

Thanks
Norm

[Anastacia42]

Good. Now let's go a little deeper.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? There IS Sensation



Loving