On the verge

[Tirano1996]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that to be that when you observe directly, you are not able to find a self but instead come in contact with the direct experience of the senses and perception of the surrounding environment. No matter how many times you look, a sense of self, in the way you thought existed, cannot be found.

What are you looking for at LU?
A guide to help me as I transition to awakening/ breaking the first fetter. I feel like I am ready and looking to work and speak to others in my awakening journey, as opposed to isolating and being all by myself in this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Direct pointings to the truth. Someone to facilitate the process as I question my deepest assumptions about self and reality. A source of understanding and support in a life in which I cannot openly talk about non-duality and awakening.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have done 3 full 10-day vipassana retreats in the last 10 years. Have been doing intense, but sometimes inconstant, inquiry questions influenced by Angelo Dilulo’s method of inquiry. Recently have been directly observing and questioning the sense of self in a more neo-advaita style. Have had a more or less consistent meditation practice for two years now.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Elad]

Hello! My name is Elad and I'm a guide here. Are you ready to start?

[Tirano1996]

I am ready

[Elad]

Okay, lets start!

So the he way this works is that I’ll give you questions and exercises to help you investigate whether there is a separate self. Your task is to look directly at your sensory experience in the here and now and report on your direct experience, not your thoughts about experience, but the direct experience. Try to approach these exercises with “beginner’s mind,” setting aside everything you know about spiritual teachings, science, and philosophy. In other words, don't "think about" what I ask. Use all questions and exercises as a door to LOOK AT what is actually there and what is not, here and now.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQs of LU:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When you reply to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. This will make our dialogue easier to follow. Please watch the video below to learn how to use the quote function:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ


The website goes down at times. To avoid losing your work, you may find it helpful to copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there, and then copy and paste them to your thread.

Let’s try to post daily, if we can. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, just let me know. I’ll do so as well. If I don't seem to answer for more then 2 days, check the site, if nothing is threre, write to eladexplore1111@gmail.com - maybe there is some system error. This has happened a fair bit lately.

Let me know if you have any questions or reservations in relation to this message and the FAQ!

[Tirano1996]

Thank you Elad, this is clear. I do not have any questions and am ready to begin!

[Elad]

Great!

So:

"There is no me - is it true?"

Look at this sentence, focus fully on it and stay with it. See what happens, tell me what happens, tell me what is realized.

Don't believe anything, don't put faith in anything, neither your claims and beliefs or other peoples claims and beliefs (including mine and LU). Just keep looking: Is it true?

And SEE what happens, what actually is there and unfolds in direct experience, and what is not.

[Tirano1996]

"There is no me - is it true?"

It is hard to describe, I notice more direct sense experience (mostly visual field and sensations in my body) and i observe the lack of anything that could be “me”. I feel a weird feeling in my body, an instant involuntary contraction that moves around like goosebumps and shudders. This happens consistently as I ask the your question as a form of inquiry. There is this giddy, kind of empty but exciting feeling throughout my body. It is disorienting.

[Elad]

"There is no me - is it true?"

It is hard to describe, I notice more direct sense experience (mostly visual field and sensations in my body) and i observe the lack of anything that could be “me”. I feel a weird feeling in my body, an instant involuntary contraction that moves around like goosebumps and shudders. This happens consistently as I ask the your question as a form of inquiry. There is this giddy, kind of empty but exciting feeling throughout my body. It is disorienting.

Good! Continue doing this. And look: What is asking? What is inquiring? What thinks the thoughts? There is no you controlling or doing any of it, it just happens! Right?

[Elad]

Please try keep daily interaction. If site is down, write to eladexplore1111@gmail.com

[Tirano1996]

Hello Elad, on Friday my wife had an emergency c-section and thankfully both her and the baby are fine. This is why I have not been able to keep up daily posting as I have been in the hospital helping her.

When I feel into “who is asking” or “what is asking” I keep getting hit by waves of goosebumps, and my vision gets unfocused. Sometimes there is excitement and rush of energy. I am realizing that there is no self controlling the body, such as walking. It is hard for the mind to believe but so obvious when felt in direct experience.

[Elad]

Wow, blessings for the family. Certainly understand and support taking all needed time for that.

Back to the main point here. Yes. This is it. Seeing is happening! Now notice how expansions/releases of seeing and contractions of body and mind doubt also happen by themselves. No one controlling or owning or choosing any of that! Clear?

There is as little self in the belief in self and contraction and feeling not good, as there is in experiences of bliss, release, feeling good, and "oneness". All just patterns of experience spontaneously emerging! Clear?

If not, look, say out load:

"The doubt is ridiculous, there is no doubt at all!"

What happens? Doubt, sceptisism and contraction? Or clarity and recognition? Either way - no self choosing it or owning it. Clear?

Finally for now, notice if there is a mind pattern that equating seeing through self and recognition with feeling good or not feeling not good. If there is, see this is just a misunderstanding, an understandable wish turned into unconscious belief and expectation. It makes seeing truth more confusing, and creates a pattern of "seeing it and losing it", because everytime there is discomfort and thoughts of wanting something else, it is assumed clarity is lost. If this belief of *seeing = feeling good* is there, see it for the illusion it is, and drop it. Okay?

[Tirano1996]

No one controlling or owning or choosing any of that! Clear?

This is becoming so obvious and clear that it’s self evident. There still a slight film or layer, perhaps subtle. But I look and it so quiet and clear, and thoughts are seen with clarity. I notice I attributed my sense of self to these thoughts, and now they are seen as ephemeral risings that occur by themselves, caused by no one. There is a growing sense of peace and confidence, it makes me want to laugh.

There is as little self in the belief in self and contraction and feeling not good, as there is in experiences of bliss, release, feeling good, and "oneness". All just patterns of experience spontaneously emerging! Clear?

This is becoming clarified, particularly as bliss states (warmth, giddiness, excitement, hope, love) come completely randomly and uncaused. The heaviness comes too, and will usually fly away if noticed as a complex of thoughts, and sometimes the heaviness is just felt, with no need to fix it or make it about something beyond the experience itself. Negative and “me” thoughts still come, but are so easily seen through compared to before, when they were like a sticky dark web.

Finally for now, notice if there is a mind pattern that equating seeing through self and recognition with feeling good or not feeling not good. If there is, see this is just a misunderstanding, an understandable wish turned into unconscious belief and expectation. It makes seeing truth more confusing, and creates a pattern of "seeing it and losing it", because everytime there is discomfort and thoughts of wanting something else, it is assumed clarity is lost. If this belief of *seeing = feeling good* is there, see it for the illusion it is, and drop it. Okay?

This definitely has happened for the past years. Now however, i’ve noticed that I dont really care, it is like I have stop pulling and frantically searching. I dont have that restless urge to meditate or read a book about spirituality. I’m okay with things going as they go, with a faith in reality and where this is taking me. Things are just happening. I notice expectations arising and do my best to let go, this might be were my edge is, but my expectations are more like: “when will the shoe drop”, “is it happening?”, or some other variations. They are quite subtle and i’m practicing in identifying them and just being open to whatever is coming, enjoying the ride.

[Elad]

This all sounds really clear and your "edge" sounds relatable... This video by Ilona Cuinaite speaks to some of this in a nice way:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w?si=Q8IKtz6_DIQgNLcN

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So, is it absolutely clear that there is no self? No controller, no chooser, no doer, no responsible one?

[Tirano1996]

So, is it absolutely clear that there is no self? No controller, no chooser, no doer, no responsible one?

I sat with this questions I get this involuntary shudder and tightness. I feel as if there is this wall that I hit and am not able to go beyond. Almost like an unwillingness to jump of a cliff. I am at a loss as to why I just hit this and don’t go forward. Subtle expectations? At least that is the thoughts to come up when on the edge. This is where I need your help. I can sense the shift happening, but is it a matter of time or grace? Even this expectation itself might be the last thread left. In any case I just let go and let be. And sit.

[Elad]

Yes, where is this "I" at the edge, not awake?

Where is this "I" that is almost awake, not there?

Where is this supposed "I that could get really awake" ???

None of it exists! Let the truth that is already seen be aknowledged.

Be completely honest. Don't let fantasies of how this should be keep "you" on the fence, waiting for something better. Not that there is a you doing any of this.