Self be gone

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poppyseed
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Re: Self be gone

Postby poppyseed » Wed May 06, 2026 8:36 am

Hi Glen
Enjoyment shows up when it does and so does the label.
Exactly!
thoughts that something ought to be different still appear
Of course they do. BUT when that thought appears, is there a problem?
Or just a thought saying there is a problem

Nothing has to change for this to be clear. Even the thought “this isn’t enough” is just another appearance. You don’t need to get rid of anything. You don’t need to stabilize anything. You don’t need to become thought-free.

Here are the checkpoint questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer ​what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Answer from what is seen right now, not from what you’ve concluded.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Gary1
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Re: Self be gone

Postby Gary1 » Wed May 06, 2026 10:18 pm

Hello Rali
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Like Luke Skywalker, it has a place in the imagination, but not outside of that and it never did.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It is the thought and sense of certainty that I am a body that sees and thinks etc. "When it starts" could refer to age and I have no answer to that. If "when it starts" refers to the exact moment the thought of self arises these days then I also have no answer.
As to how it works, once the illusion of self appears then a follow-up thought about the body being wrong in some way is often close behind and less than stellar sensations can arise leading to thought about how to feel better and on it goes.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Sometimes it feels weird, other times liberating. The difference now versus a couple months ago is that the sense of certainty about being a body is fleeting when that thought appears. This understanding that I'm not a self is not constant yet.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
One of the questions that stands out is asking if the sensation of the body says "I am you?" I found that amusing and insightful. Also asking me in multiple ways if some idea of a self is "just thoughts." At some point it became obvious that even routine or subtle thoughts are "just thoughts."
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
Decision is a thought taking credit for an action that would have happened anyway. Looking at different things outside my window can happen without a "decider" or with one. Typing this very sentence doesn't require anybody claiming to be in charge of it.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
Intension is a thought about wanting to do something. I intend to have a protein smoothie in about an hour. I guess what you're getting at here is that an intension can get someone to think that he or she decided to do something as opposed to that thing happening without a decision being necessary.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
The aforementioned protein smoothie will get made and consumed or it won't - no free will involved. Answering these questions is also taking place out of habit with no free will needed.
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Choice is the thought that a self will use free will to pick one thing over another. Just yesterday, I planned on hiking a certain trail but ended up veering to the left and hiking a different one and I'm not sure why.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
I'm detecting a common theme here. Control is the thought of free will. If the thought appears that I'm in control with no counter thought then I seem to be in control. I just blinked my eyes several times rapidly and the thought appeared that I did that. Go figure.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
Without resorting to unreliable thought, I have no idea. Resorting to unreliable thought, I still wouldn't know for sure.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I don't find anything. Sleep happens, digestion happens, blinking happens, and thoughts happen too. I don't see where I cause any of that.
6) Anything to add?
For now, just one question: does Rali rhyme with Dolly?

Glen

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poppyseed
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Re: Self be gone

Postby poppyseed » Thu May 07, 2026 8:14 am

Hi Glen

Great! Everything you wrote is consistent except for this subtle drift:
This understanding that I'm not a self is not constant yet.
Look! Is this about an understanding being constant or about thoughts appearing and disappearing?
It seems like there is still an expectation for something to stabilize, fewer thoughts, permanence. Drop all of that.
Even if the thought “I am a body” appears 100 times, does it ever create a self?
If the answer is still no, then what exactly would “progress” even mean?

I will pass your answers to the other guides to check if we’ve missed anything so please stand by for questions
And no, Rali doesn’t rhyme with Dolly 😄. It’s more like a car rally
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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poppyseed
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Re: Self be gone

Postby poppyseed » Thu May 07, 2026 11:17 am

...
A guide has asked with regards to:
This understanding that I'm not a self is not constant yet.
Who judges constancy? Is it possible to know what is constant in direct experience or only with a thought of past or future?
Love
rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Gary1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2026 5:26 am

Re: Self be gone

Postby Gary1 » Thu May 07, 2026 10:00 pm

Hello Rali
Even if the thought “I am a body” appears 100 times, does it ever create a self?
If that thought is accompanied by a sense of certainty then I'll be sucked in to the alternate universe where I'm a body with all of the follow-up thoughts and feelings that entails. I experienced that earlier today walking in public. Only the question "am I a body?" broke that spell.
Is this about an understanding being constant or about thoughts appearing and disappearing?
The desire to feel good seems as natural as breathing and eating, therefore delusions that cause pain seem best to avoid.
Who judges constancy? Is it possible to know what is constant in direct experience or only with a thought of past or future?
True, direct experience would have avoided a disturbing thought of constancy, so is the lesson to stay in direct experience more often and stop complaining that I'm not perched atop Mount Everest yet?

Glen

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poppyseed
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Re: Self be gone

Postby poppyseed » Fri May 08, 2026 8:40 am

Hi Glen
I get sucked in when the thought is accompanied by a sense of certainty
Look carefully… What is that “sense of certainty” made of? A sensation? A thought?
Even when you are “sucked in”, does a self actually appear? Or is there a thought saying “I am a body”, a sensation (tight, heavy, convincing), more thoughts building a story.
Is that different from before… or just a more convincing story?

Only the question ‘am I a body?’ broke the spell.
Good, but see this clearly! Did the question (still thought) remove a real self? Or did it interrupt a chain of thoughts?
Nothing real was there to break. Only a loop paused.
delusions that cause pain seem best to avoid
Careful! That sounds reasonable, but look deeper. Pain appears. Thought says: “this is because of a delusion”. Another thought says: “I should avoid this”. Now you have a sensation, a thought, and more thought trying to control it. Is there someone managing this?
If anything, delusions causing pain should be seen through, not avoided. And all of this happens on its own. When pain appears ('unpleasant" experience), there are usually thoughts how things should be different and the pain should not be here. But these are just thoughts. Next time instead of concentrating on exploring the desire for the pain to go away, try staying with the pain (the raw sensation), welcoming it -provided that is not life threatening of course. See what happens with the pain. Eventually belief in the truthfulness of a story drops away. The story is way more enjoyable without a "me" and the fear that something can happen to this “me.” Once it’s clearly seen that there is no actual me, there is no place for the story to stick (to form an identity). Whatever happens feels okay. Even pain :)
No manager, no traffic cop deciding: this thought goes, this thought stays. Even this:
direct experience would have avoided a disturbing thought
A disturbing thought appears. Is that outside of direct experience? Or is it part of what is happening?
Direct experience is not peaceful, thought-free, protected. It includes disturbing thoughts, confusion, and getting “sucked in”. So check this:
When a disturbing thought appears, Is that a failure to stay in direct experience?
Or is it exactly what is happening ?

Nothing needs to be avoided. Nothing needs to be prevented.
You’re still assuming: “there is a better version of experience where this doesn’t happen
Look again. Is that anything more than a thought about how things should be?
Even when confusion / disturbing thoughts / the feeling of being a body appears, Is that outside of THIS? Or is it THIS, exactly as it is

Direct experience is not a refuge. It’s not a tool. It’s not something you stay in. It’s simply whatever is happening, including everything you think shouldn’t be happening.
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Gary1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2026 5:26 am

Re: Self be gone

Postby Gary1 » Sat May 09, 2026 4:21 am

Hello Rali

I'm not feeling well enough to answer any questions today. I don't know if I'll feel like answering questions another day or not.

Glen


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