Step 5, doubt, and wanting to be done with this

[bluzulu]

Here's a quote from Darryl Bailey:

All that is ever experienced is a mysterious, unformed action. We can’t truly describe any qualities, because to identify a quality is to identify form. Even the terms flow, motion, and stream are not describing the presence of any “thing”; they are pointing to un-form.

We think in terms of various things influencing each other, as though there really are things. We speak of cause and effect, of one thing causing another, or of one thing being affected by another. But this is like looking at the surface of a river and believing there are various ripples influencing each other. There are no separate ripples. There is only the moving and shifting of one body of water.

In considering this, some will get the impression that we’re being pushed around by the flow of nature, but this is not so. Ripples are not pushed around by the movement of water, because ripples are the movement.The past is the idea that certain forms once existed. The present is the idea that a different set of forms exists now. The future is the idea that still other forms will exist at some point.

Forms and things are "slow moving" events that it is useful to think of as things.
Sorta like time.
There is only this Now, a bunch of matter and energy which, as far as we can know, always has been and always will be constantly changing everywhere. some changes "slow" and some 'fast' by our clocks.

[avare]

OK, thanks.
So where is the thought identification?

This is a good question. There is the presence of thoughts, but no thought-identification. So what I mean by thought-identification is when thoughts keep streaming in, thoughts about thoughts. Once this happens, there is another thought 'I was lost in thought', or 'i was identified'.

Time is a useful construct, isn't it?
But do you actually believe the past or future exist somewhere?

Time is very useful yes. I see what you mean. The concept of past-future is useful, but they don't exist outside of the words. Similarly to how the concept of 'I' is all that exists, and there is nothing behind that word.

All that is ever experienced is a mysterious, unformed action. We can’t truly describe any qualities, because to identify a quality is to identify form. Even the terms flow, motion, and stream are not describing the presence of any “thing”; they are pointing to un-form.

We think in terms of various things influencing each other, as though there really are things. We speak of cause and effect, of one thing causing another, or of one thing being affected by another. But this is like looking at the surface of a river and believing there are various ripples influencing each other. There are no separate ripples. There is only the moving and shifting of one body of water.

In considering this, some will get the impression that we’re being pushed around by the flow of nature, but this is not so. Ripples are not pushed around by the movement of water, because ripples are the movement.The past is the idea that certain forms once existed. The present is the idea that a different set of forms exists now. The future is the idea that still other forms will exist at some point.
Forms and things are "slow moving" events that it is useful to think of as things.
Sorta like time.
There is only this Now, a bunch of matter and energy which, as far as we can know, always has been and always will be constantly changing everywhere. some changes "slow" and some 'fast' by our clocks.

Ooohh, this is quite nice! Thank you for sharing it. All we have is this energy constantly changing, and some of it changes fast or slow, it is only a matter of perspective. so I see the misconception is again with language. we have words that point to experience, but then think that the word (thing) can exist apart from the experience. thank you for the refresher!

[bluzulu]

when/if there is identification with thought, is there a "you" that is doing the identifying, or is identification itself just another passing event?

and if there is dissatisfaction with identification, is there a "you" that is dissatisfied, or is dissatisfaction itself just another passing event?

intend to just notice these things as they happen.
if thoughts about the process happen, notice whether or not there is a "you" that is thinking them, or if they themselves are just more passing events.

[bluzulu]

and notice whether there is a "you" that intends, or if the intention itself is just something that happens.

[avare]

when/if there is identification with thought, is there a "you" that is doing the identifying, or is identification itself just another passing event?
and if there is dissatisfaction with identification, is there a "you" that is dissatisfied, or is dissatisfaction itself just another passing event?

I see. The identification with thought or dissatisfaction that it happened are both just what is happening now. making them into something other than this, or making a problem out of it is just again what is happening now. There never is something that isnt just what is happening now!

intend to just notice these things as they happen.
if thoughts about the process happen, notice whether or not there is a "you" that is thinking them, or if they themselves are just more passing events.

the noticing happened more often these two days, even though i was busier. There was no choosing, just it happening.

and notice whether there is a "you" that intends, or if the intention itself is just something that happens.

there were a lot of thoughts about 'trying, planning or wanting' the practice/noticing to happen, but whenever it did happen, it was just something that happened.

thank you for the pointers! That seems to be the one difference that can cause feelings of being lost here vs confidence of how simple the process is. The simple fact that anything that happens is just, and nothing more, what is happening now. A passing event.

[bluzulu]

O yes, yes, and yes. Beautiful.
just stay with that!
Maybe you will notice even more subtle reactions. That would be cool.
I still do.

I'm travelling and it will be few days before I can respond.

[avare]

Yes, enjoy your trip!

[bluzulu]

Hi Lucas, what's the haps?

[avare]

Hey Pablo!

I also just came back from a little weekend trip back home. Went in for my citizenship interview :)

One of the things that has become more apparent these last couple of days was seeing and feeling anxiety/stress. Before my interview I knew there was nothing to be nervous about and it made no sense to be anxious as in terms of preparation I had done more than enough and was plenty confident, but still the feelings arose.

A more extreme example was thursday. I had a test for a class that was previously very easy and I barely had to study before, so i did the same. This test though, as I was taking it, felt disastrous hahaha! as I came across questions I wasnt expecting and wasnt sure of the answer it was so apparent how anxious/nervous I got. Thoughts of regret/worry/anxiety rushed through, and the most interesting part was the bodily sensations. The flush I felt up to my ears (almost like being embarrassed or blushing but stronger) felt so interesting. There was definitely resistance to the feelings, although the first reaction that came up was that there was no point to feeling or dwelling or worrying, this is how things were, so I just kept going with the test. In retrospect, the test wasn't actually that bad :)

I also have a question for you actually. I did some thinking/writing about all of this recent energy that's been directed towards writing a novel. These thoughts are definitely doubt-thoughts, and mostly involve depicting this foray as a distraction. I say this because the novel I keep imagining, has a lot of non-duality themes, but it is not writing from my perspective. Rather it seems to be mostly just parroting others or taking from other experiences. It seems more like escapism/self insert into a character who is awake 😆 .

To elaborate, there is a lot of planning, thinking, attention being put into writing, into creating this world and story, but it seems that really, this is a distraction from the waking up process by escaping into this world which, in fact, would be better written once more insights have occurred here.

curious to hear your thoughts on distraction vs not. i hope your trip was good and you had a fun time! i'm always really grateful every time we talk :)

[bluzulu]

Hey, welcome to the U.S., such as it is now. De donde vienes? Your english is certainly as if you were born here.

About those sensations and emotions and anxieties and thoughts and worries, whether about tests or distractions etc:
=Why should they not be happening?
=Who is causing them, and who can stop them?

It sounds like there is still an idea about reports of sudden and complete awakening that some people report.
From my experience, it doesn't seem to happen that way for most people.

Old nervous system reactions may occur for a long time. Or not. Who knows how long it will be for any given person? Nobody.

Who is causing them? Who is going to stop them? When they are just accepted as being like the weather, though less predictable in their changing and coming and going, they are just stuff happening that you can trust your neocortex is learning from---unless, of course, there is trying to "solve" them. Sure, there are hacks to distract from them, avoid them, or reframe them as opportunities or whatever, and if that happens....that will be what is happening. If you want Liberation, though, they are just stuff happening. And then the above hacks may happen and that will be no problem.

Can you just be with that for a few days, and get back to me?

PS if your story is fiction, why isn't that ok? If you start writing, you will be writing. lf you are preoccupied with worries and thoughts about writing, you will be preoccupied with worries and thoughts about writing.

And that goes for anything and everything.

[bluzulu]

Remember--

Judging and worrying are not the problem
Mental gymnastics are not the problem
ifs, coulds, shouldas, wills are not the problem
the feeling that these things happen with a feeling that they matter is not the problem
the idea that the actions taken are out of fear (or even when actions are happening out of fear) is not the problem
mistaking ideas for something true/real is not the problem
thoughts feelings of judging are not the problem
procrastinating is not the problem
any kind of thoughts at all occurring is not the problem

and if you don't know what the problem is, that's not a problem either!

So what might really be the problem?

[bluzulu]

and feelings of me, mine, or I are not the problem, either.

[avare]

Hey, welcome to the U.S., such as it is now. De donde vienes? Your english is certainly as if you were born here.

Haha! Thank you for the welcome :) I was born in Brazil and moved over when I was around 9, which makes me feel decidedly not Brazillian and not American which is neat!

About those sensations and emotions and anxieties and thoughts and worries, whether about tests or distractions etc:
=Why should they not be happening?
=Who is causing them, and who can stop them?

it is not that they shouldn't be happening but the feeling that comes up is that their presence means there's still work to do. But then there is no one to cause or do the work so... No one is causing them, no choice involved, no success or failure on anyone for any part.

Who is causing them? Who is going to stop them? When they are just accepted as being like the weather, though less predictable in their changing and coming and going, they are just stuff happening that you can trust your neocortex is learning from---unless, of course, there is trying to "solve" them. Sure, there are hacks to distract from them, avoid them, or reframe them as opportunities or whatever, and if that happens....that will be what is happening. If you want Liberation, though, they are just stuff happening. And then the above hacks may happen and that will be no problem.

Can you just be with that for a few days, and get back to me?

great way to put it. i'll drop this idea that there can be a sudden and complete shift (awakening). The question that came up, which seems to just be more solving, is how to accept them just like the weather? For the next few days I'll just put attention there.

PS if your story is fiction, why isn't that ok? If you start writing, you will be writing. lf you are preoccupied with worries and thoughts about writing, you will be preoccupied with worries and thoughts about writing.

right there is judging of what is happening based on how 'long' it takes to be through Liberation. so when attention is put into thinking and not in direct experience via some practice or inquiry, it is judged to be a 'distraction' which makes it not ok.

Judging and worrying are not the problem
Mental gymnastics are not the problem
ifs, coulds, shouldas, wills are not the problem
the feeling that these things happen with a feeling that they matter is not the problem
the idea that the actions taken are out of fear (or even when actions are happening out of fear) is not the problem
mistaking ideas for something true/real is not the problem
thoughts feelings of judging are not the problem
procrastinating is not the problem
any kind of thoughts at all occurring is not the problem

and if you don't know what the problem is, that's not a problem either!

So what might really be the problem?

and feelings of me, mine, or I are not the problem, either.

I need to tape this somewhere, because it cuts straight through everything. yes, there is no problem. this is really very pertinent, thank you for copying your answer, I think this just a matter of being exposed until it can't be forgotten because the old patterns of making problems that need to be solved is still going strong.

[bluzulu]

Yes, old neural pathways of thoughts, expectations, judgements, emotional reactions may occur for who knows how long.
But when it is seen and accepted that, like everything else, they are just natural events with nobody doing them and nobody to do or change anything about them or anything else, they are just subtitles for old irrelevant movies and they matter not. And the natural you learns better when it is free from the noise and suffering of "things should be different to get what i want".

For what its worth, I didn't even know I was suffering before that became clear. That old kind of suffering still happens at times, but now that I can truly trust that it is always a learning experience for my nervous system there is no resistance to it and it is quite welcome. And its frequency and half-life has been becoming less and less. And it is clear that the more I set aside time to just practice simple awareness, like sensory and internal awareness, the dissipation of that suffering accelerates.

If you wish, I would be very happy to do a Zoom session with you today before 11am your time.
If so, would you please email me with an invite?

[bluzulu]

or better yet, call or text me at 202.596.9156