Getting untangled

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

I'm glad that the video resonated with you, I find Angelo's YouTube offerings to be a really great support and I love his humor and easy-going manner. I went on his silent retreat last August in the UK and am also signed up to go this year as it was a wonderful experience.

It is hard to reproduce the feelings when I recall incidents, and even in the midst of incidents I tend to have a welter of thoughts rather than feelings, but my sense is that there is slight contraction with reaction and slight expansion when there is no reaction, or less reaction.

It's good that you have noticed this difference. I would recommend making a practice of placing your attention on body sensations; thoughts are always a diversion away from being fully present to what is going on in our bodies. When we've made a lifetime practice of moving away from the body to thought it takes a bit of 'effort' to break the habit and instill a new one, but it will definitely be worthwhile.

For example if I laugh off something that would normally cause a reaction I notice a loosening rather than a tightening. The thoughts that come in with reaction tend to be negative ones, judgemental ones, the usual stuff, and the 'issue' (by which I take it you mean the result/outcome) is unpleasant.

By issue I meant the situation that was causing reaction. It is interesting what you shared about laughing off something that would normally cause a reaction, I am glad that you can see the effect on the body when there is a lightening of the situation through laughter, however, as far as investigating into body sensations, this is also a tactic of avoidance of feeling what was actually happening BEFORE you decided to laugh.
Can you see that?

My suggestion would be to find something or someone to watch on TV that you know will cause reactivity in you. Notice the thoughts that appear as a reaction to that and then drop the thoughts and look at what is going on in the body. If there appears to be nothing, then start placing your attention on places your body is in contact with the ground or furniture. Feel the feet on the ground, your bum on the seat, your back against the back of the chair etc. rest a while (as long as you can) exploring those sensations and then see if others start to arise.

Perhaps when you hear about a particular person you might think "that person makes me squirm." Look into that, how does it feel to squirm?


WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVEN'T HAD A SHIFT IN SEEING THAT THERE'S NO INHERENT SELF?

Maybe the seeing that there is no "I" or separate agent is not enough?
Maybe it is time to investigate for that 'sense of self' which can easily get overlooked, especially when the habit is to get into mental activity.

Keep looking for a 'sense of self' in the body throughout the day when 'selfing' arises.
What is happening? thinking? sensations? emotions? etc. Get curious.

Sense of self behind the eyes = sensation: Are these sensation a self?
Thought "this is me" = thinking + content - is this thought a self?
Image of self = thinking.

The body naturally navigates life, and gives you data on what it resonates with and what it doesn't.

The body knows what to do in many instances. Aside from all body processes that function without an "I", take driving a car!

Have you ever had a "gut feeling" that you shouldn't do something and you did it anyway?
Or
Have you ever done something that made no logical sense, but you went for it anyway?

As often as you can, through out the day, pay attention to the content of thoughts and the feelings that arise in the body.
KEEP LOOKING
How do critical thoughts affect the body?
How do satisfied thoughts affect the body?

Have thoughts ever made a decision, or are they always after the fact?
Look for a 'thinker'. Where is it located?
Pay attention to any sensations in the head, behind the eyes, the brow, etc.
Does a sensation in the head imply a 'thinker'?

Look for a 'listener' Where is it located?
Again, pay attention to any sensations in the head.

Warmly,
Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

I would recommend making a practice of placing your attention on body sensations

Yes, but easier said than done! It's as if I need to set an alarm on my phone to go off every few minutes and remind me to focus on the body ...

Can you see that?

Yes, I guess so, though in laughing them off at least I am acknowledging that there are things to laugh off - I am not pretending that they don't exist at all. So it is better to stay with the reactive feelings when something happens to trigger them? Is this a general suggestion or just for the purpose of the exercise?

Look into that, how does it feel to squirm?

There is a slight tightening of the whole body. A sensation in the belly. Slightly increased heart rate I think too.

Have you ever had a "gut feeling" that you shouldn't do something and you did it anyway?

I'm sure I have, but I am a bit unclear. If 'the body knows what to do' (as I believe it does) then it makes sense to follow our gut feelings doesn't it?

Have you ever done something that made no logical sense, but you went for it anyway?

This makes more sense - instead of following logic (i.e. thought) you follow the body (or probably in my case I have an instinct that the logical route is wrong or not what I really want or need, so I deliberately act counter to reason).

Have thoughts ever made a decision, or are they always after the fact?

I am pretty clear about this one - that even if the decision is framed or made explicit my a thought statement (like, I will walk this way rather than that way) I have already made that decision and the thought is just rubber stamping it.

Look for a 'thinker'. Where is it located?

No - nowhere.

Does a sensation in the head imply a 'thinker'?

No, it just shows that there is a sensation in the head! When I get in touch with a 'sense of self' or selfing I automatically locate it behind the eyes but I know that that is just a habit, and that it's only because there is an aspect of seeing that seems to cohere with a 'self' going out into the world as a separate object. There is no actual sensation at all that relates to this so-called 'sense of self'. I have a more real sense of self when I am in a meditative state of awareness, when the self seems to dissolve into awareness and lose its clarity and boundaries and solidity. In those states the true 'sense of self' seems to be 'no self'. I think this is what Rupert Spira calls the 'I' or the 'I am', which he equates with consciousness.

Look for a 'listener' Where is it located?

The idea of a listener has less of a hold on me because when I hear sounds I have more of a sense of the sounds just occurring and revealing themselves. With seeing, the default mode seems to be of 'me' (or my eyes) going outwards into the world and grabbing things, which reinforces a sense of the self.
Best wishes
Kim
PS It looks like we will be on the same retraet in August then!

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

Yes, but easier said than done! It's as if I need to set an alarm on my phone to go off every few minutes and remind me to focus on the body ...

Haha! .... well, maybe a little bit of gentle body focusing once or twice a day will be fine! It should not be a chore.

Yes, I guess so, though in laughing them off at least I am acknowledging that there are things to laugh off - I am not pretending that they don't exist at all.

Yes!

So it is better to stay with the reactive feelings when something happens to trigger them? Is this a general suggestion or just for the purpose of the exercise?

According to the Fetter 4 and 5 model it goes something like this:
1. trigger (could be something someone said/did or could be a thought that you have about something)
2. primary sensation in the body: a very subtle sensation that is so subtle that it is not necessarily easily picked up at first.
3. Emotion
4. Reactive action or thought ("They/I shouldn't have done that!")

So yes, it is really good to stay with the sensations (reactive feelings) ... it's a bit like tracking backwards.

This is Kevin Shanilek's website on the Fetters, and Angelo has done a number of conversations with him.
https://www.simplytheseen.com/explore-each-fetter.html.


Look into that, how does it feel to squirm?

There is a slight tightening of the whole body. A sensation in the belly. Slightly increased heart rate I think too.

Excellent! That is exactly what we are looking for! Any tightening is the body saying "No!" to an impulse.

I'm sure I have, but I am a bit unclear. If 'the body knows what to do' (as I believe it does) then it makes sense to follow our gut feelings doesn't it?

It certainly makes sense to pay attention to them. Especially if there are thoughts of "should" to the contrary.


Have you ever done something that made no logical sense, but you went for it anyway?

This makes more sense - instead of following logic (i.e. thought) you follow the body (or probably in my case I have an instinct that the logical route is wrong or not what I really want or need, so I deliberately act counter to reason).

Yes, in your case your strategy was to go to the mind to sort out problems. Nothing wrong with that, but when there is also the illusion of a separate self at play then this can cause a lot of energy drain.
A nice way to look at this I think is when you think about doing something mundane like getting up in the morning. How often do you allow yourself extra minutes to stay in bed after the alarm goes off? (That is if you use an alarm!)

Allow a thought to arise: "time to get up" and wait and see what happens! The thought turns into "I wonder when getting out of bed is going to happen?" Of course, only do that if there are no morning deadlines to meet.


Have thoughts ever made a decision, or are they always after the fact?

I am pretty clear about this one - that even if the decision is framed or made explicit my a thought statement (like, I will walk this way rather than that way) I have already made that decision and the thought is just rubber stamping it.

Have "you" made the decision, or has an apparent decision been made?

Does a sensation in the head imply a 'thinker'?

No, it just shows that there is a sensation in the head! When I get in touch with a 'sense of self' or selfing I automatically locate it behind the eyes but I know that that is just a habit, and that it's only because there is an aspect of seeing that seems to cohere with a 'self' going out into the world as a separate object. There is no actual sensation at all that relates to this so-called 'sense of self'.

Great, I'm glad that's clear.

I have a more real sense of self when I am in a meditative state of awareness, when the self seems to dissolve into awareness and lose its clarity and boundaries and solidity. In those states the true 'sense of self' seems to be 'no self'. I think this is what Rupert Spira calls the 'I' or the 'I am', which he equates with consciousness.

Yes, that's where it becomes a bit tricky because different people use different terminology.
For our purposes here, we are always looking at what can actually be found in our experience.

Can an actual separate "I" be found anywhere?

The idea of a listener has less of a hold on me because when I hear sounds I have more of a sense of the sounds just occurring and revealing themselves.

Great!

With seeing, the default mode seems to be of 'me' (or my eyes) going outwards into the world and grabbing things, which reinforces a sense of the self.

Yes, with seeing it often takes longer for that sense of 'me' looking out at the world and grabbing things.
But it need not reinforce a sense of self, rather, a reminder to look again and examine what that 'sense of self' actually is.

Always a gentle reminder that these are well-established conditioned patterns of functioning and they are not going to disappear overnight.



WHAT DO YOU KNOW IS TRUE? 100% EVIDENT
As opposed to everything else. Not what you think you know.
Not what you have been taught, believe, learned, assumed, expect, take for granted, imagine, think, remember.

What do you absolutely know for certain.?

You can be certain that you are, that you exist, but maybe not in the way that you have thought yourself to exist.

Can we know anything else for certain?

Without theories or speculations, can we know what this I AM is?


Warmly,
Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena
I need time to look at the interesting links you have sent me, especially the Simply the Seen website. I am going on a walking holiday for a week next Wednesday so I may be able to find some time to follow these things up.

Allow a thought to arise: "time to get up" and wait and see what happens! The thought turns into "I wonder when getting out of bed is going to happen?"

This often happens. I have the thought 'I must get up' but I just stay looking at my iPad or gazing into the middle distance. So in one way I am disobeying my own command. I haven't seen this as significant in any way, though. I suppose I take 'I must get up' as just a way of saying 'I must get up soon' - as indeed I do. Next time I will leave it longer and see what the thought turns into.

Have "you" made the decision, or has an apparent decision been made?

Yes, that is conventional but sloppy thinking. The decision makes itself.

Can an actual separate "I" be found anywhere?

No.

What do you absolutely know for certain.?

This is a difficult one! Precious little really. I listened to Angelo explaining how time doesn't exist, which included the suggestion that practically everything we take for granted is just an assumption, not really known, e.g. that I am typing this response to you at this very moment. I could be fabricating the whole thing. When (if) you reply, even that doesn't prove that I typed this - and then you replied to it. But it goes against 'common sense' and I am not sure how useful it is to think along these lines. At rock bottom I guess I know that there is a sensation in the body right now, and that there is the sound of the keyboard (or at least a sound, which I take to come from the keyboard becuae it occurs as I strike the keys, but that is an inference isn't it?). So by that token even the sensation in the body is an inference that there is a body - perhaps it is more accurate to say 'sensation is felt' or 'sensation occurs'. BUT by the time I have logged that sensation in my thought, I am registering the past, which I am not aware of apart from through thoughts. So I am left with NOTHING is certain.

Without theories or speculations, can we know what this I AM is?

The same therefore applies to I AM - I simply cannot be certain about anything regarding the self/no-self.
Best wishes
Kim

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

What do you absolutely know for certain.?

This is a difficult one! Precious little really. I listened to Angelo explaining how time doesn't exist, which included the suggestion that practically everything we take for granted is just an assumption, not really known, e.g. that I am typing this response to you at this very moment. I could be fabricating the whole thing. When (if) you reply, even that doesn't prove that I typed this - and then you replied to it.

Yes, it becomes a thought story about something that apparently happened, but there is no way of actually verifying, it can only 'look like' but cannot be proven.

But it goes against 'common sense' and I am not sure how useful it is to think along these lines.

Is what is called 'common sense' verifiable?
Useful for whom?

At rock bottom I guess I know that there is a sensation in the body right now, and that there is the sound of the keyboard (or at least a sound, which I take to come from the keyboard becuae it occurs as I strike the keys, but that is an inference isn't it?). So by that token even the sensation in the body is an inference that there is a body - perhaps it is more accurate to say 'sensation is felt' or 'sensation occurs'. BUT by the time I have logged that sensation in my thought, I am registering the past, which I am not aware of apart from through thoughts. So I am left with NOTHING is certain.

YES!
What wants certainty?
What could know or not know certainty?
Without an independent, separate "I" or self, is certainty even an issue?


Without theories or speculations, can we know what this I AM is?

The same therefore applies to I AM - I simply cannot be certain about anything regarding the self/no-self.

Are "you" okay with not being certain?
Without certainty, what remains?


THERE IS NO SEPARATE SELF

"There is no separate "self," never has been and never will be. The separate "self" is an illusion?"

What comes up in your immediate experience when you read the above statement.
Is there a felt reaction in the body to these words? Yes/No?
If "Yes" please say more about this.

Warmly,
Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

Is what is called 'common sense' verifiable?

No

Useful for whom?

Perhaps it is useful to think along these lines after all, as it is a further undermining of what we take for granted to be true.

What wants certainty?

I guess the so-called self wants certainty, but without the self certainty isn't needed or wanted.

What could know or not know certainty?

Awareness? What is revealed in awareness, as long as it is not labelled by thinking, is presumably certain.

Without an independent, separate "I" or self, is certainty even an issue?

No. Certainty is a way of checking experience against another standard (Is it true/right/real etc?) so once the self dissolves there is no 'other' to check against.

Are "you" okay with not being certain?

Yes, I find it exciting, liberating.

Without certainty, what remains?

Anything is possible, I suppose. So ... potential? Boundlessness?

"There is no separate "self," never has been and never will be. The separate "self" is an illusion?"
Is there a felt reaction in the body to these words? Yes/No?

No.
There is no resistance, it just seems like I am reading a statement of fact.
Best wishes
Kim

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

What could know or not know certainty?

Awareness? What is revealed in awareness, as long as it is not labelled by thinking, is presumably certain.

We have to be a bit careful of creating a 'thing' called Awareness (Angelo has a video called Non-Duality, The Awareness Trap". But I do agree with you that there is a 'knowing' for want of a better word, that 'feels' certain. Like an energetic or intuitive 'knowing' that can arise.


Are "you" okay with not being certain?

Yes, I find it exciting, liberating.

I Love this!!!


"There is no separate "self," never has been and never will be. The separate "self" is an illusion?"
Is there a felt reaction in the body to these words? Yes/No?

No.
There is no resistance, it just seems like I am reading a statement of fact.

Love this! That answers the certainty question!

Kim, may I send you the check point questions that are the last set of questions we have that once answered indicate that the illusion has been seen through? I know you were a bit concerned when I mentioned that other guides would look at the questions and answers, but that is totally for 'your' benefit as they might find something to question that I might have missed.
And by answering these questions doesn't mean that our 'conversation' will come to an end. The thread is always open for further questions etc.

Please let me know if you are now ready for the questions.

If 'you' feel some resistance that is also fine. This would bring up something more to investigate, so either way.

Warmly,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hello Kim,

I haven't heard from you for a few days.
You do not have to 'finish' up anything with the questions, there is no 'finishing' to be done, only seeing clearly, which you do.
Please get back to me with 'your' thoughts on this.

Warmly,
Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena
So sorry for not replying sooner - my family has been staying and I haven't been able to get to my computer.
Yes, I am very happy for you to send the check[point questions. I don't know how extensive these will be - I am going on a walking holiday on Wednesday and I'll only have my iPad with me, which I find doesn't work terribly well with copying and pasting etc so it makes the conversations a bit difficult for me. But I can certainly use it sporadically through the week (I say sporadically because I don't know what my routine or availability will be) if you feel it would be good to press on while I am away. Otherwise, we could resume with the questions on the Wednesday after Easter, when I am back. What do you think?
Best wishes
Kim

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

Thanks for the update. I think it would be best for me to send you the questions when you get back. In the meantime have a great walking holiday and I will look forward to hearing from you on Wednesday 8th.

Warmly,

Rowena

[Tanglier]

OK, I agree that is probably best, thanks Rowena. I'll wait for something on 8 April.
Best wishes
Kim

[Noro]

Hello Kim,

I hope you have had a great week hiking. As discussed:

CHECKING-IN QUESTIONS

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?


5) a) Describe decision and give examples from experience.

b) Describe intention and give examples from experience.

c) Describe free-will and give examples from experience.

d) Describe choice and give examples from experience.

e) Describe control and give examples from experience.


6) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your experience.

7) What makes things happen? How does it work?

8) Anything to add?

Warmly,

Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is no separate entity 'self' and there never was one.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The self illusion means that we believe there is a continuous separate sense of self that is in charge of our thoughts, feelings and actions, which persists through time. Under this illusion we act as if we are separate from the rest of the world, so there is a sense of self and other. The sense of self is felt (in my case) as a controlling centre behind the eyes. It gives a pretty constant commentary on what I am thinking and feeling and intending to do. It takes things personally when it is believed in. Now I have much the same thoughts and feelings, and they appear to emanate from that central control centre, but increasingly I tell myself that they are just thoughts and feelings passing through.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It doesn't feel hugely different, but there is a subtle loosening of the grip of the self. For example one day earlier this week I felt quite shut down and grey and lacking in energy and I was aware of the swirl of thoughts about this berating me for being useless and having little to give. I just rode out the storm, knowing that if I didn't attach to the thoughts and feelings they would pass through, and now I see that they didn't really have anything to do with 'me'.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Not sure what the question is driving at.

5) a) Describe decision and give examples from experience.

Decision is a word given to an action that appears to have a self behind it 'deciding' to do it. In fact there are no decisions of this kind - it is as if  something is done and we then assume that a decision has been made to do it. Going for a walk - what decides which way to go, or what to look at? Nothing appears to decide that - it just happens. Even when I make it explicit, e.g. 'I am going to walk over the Common', that is just a rubber stamping of an urge that has just arisen out of nowhere (or rather out of the complex conditions leading up to it). Likewise all other decisions, like how to answer this question.

b) Describe intention and give examples from experience.

Intention is very similar to decision in this respect. I see it as an underlying state that can arise in advance of a decision being taken. So there was an intention to go for a walk or get some exercise, and then that was followed by a decision to do so at a particular time and in a particular direction. The intention is felt like a kind of background momentum. But it has no self behind it - it just occurs and arises like everything else, in awareness.

c) Describe free-will and give examples from experience.

Free will is the belief that we are in charge of our actions and can take any action we wish to take - we are free agents. There are no examples in experience as the absence of a self does not allow for free will.

d) Describe choice and give examples from experience.

Choice is similar to decision (above) - it is simply a decision between two or more things. I may be appearing to choose tea over coffee, or Netflix over Amazon Prime, but the choice is just made by the preceding web of conditions, not by myself. 

e) Describe control and give examples from experience.

Control seems to be something that the self wants and needs very much to keep it going. I feel control when I am aware of the little routines that rule my life, from the things that I do as soon as I wake up to the way I go through a list of things to do in order to feel on top of things and not overwhelmed by things. But these are just habits - I am not actually 'in control'. The habits and routines give the self a semblance of being in charge. Actually it doesn't take much to shift the landscape or context and I can feel quite unmoored, 'not myself', as for example when my family visit en masse and upset routines, do things differently in the house, make a lot of noise etc. It is often hard to go with the flow, there is a strong pull to retreat to the 'self' even though I know that is illusory.

6) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your experience.

Even though I do not appear to be in charge of my actions, I have to take responsibility for them, which is a bit of a paradox. If I say something out of hand, where does that action come from? Past conditions. But I still have to take responsibility for what comes out of my mouth, and for it perhaps triggering someone's upset. In some mysterious way I am part of the conditions that come together to make things happen. I haven't worked out how this works.

7) What makes things happen? How does it work?

The conditions leading up to things. A million different tiny things that come together in a single moment to make something arise in exactly the way it does. 

8) Anything to add?

I don't think so thanks!
Best wishes
Kim

[Noro]

Hi Kim,

Thanks for answering the questions.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The self illusion means that we believe there is a continuous separate sense of self that is in charge of our thoughts, feelings and actions, which persists through time. Under this illusion we act as if we are separate from the rest of the world, so there is a sense of self and other.
The sense of self is felt (in my case) as a controlling centre behind the eyes. It gives a pretty constant commentary on what I am thinking and feeling and intending to do. It takes things personally when it is believed in.

In the second part of this answer, it seems as if you are describing this as if there is an actual 'sense of self' that has agency.
Is there an actual sense of self that can control?
What is this sense of self made of?
Is this apparent sense of self able to give a pretty constant commentary on anything?
What is this "I" that thinks and feels and intends to do made of? Where is it located.
Is there a personal 'self' to take things personally,
Is there a believer?
When believing is happening, what is actually going on?

Now I have much the same thoughts and feelings, and they appear to emanate from that central control centre, but increasingly I tell myself that they are just thoughts and feelings passing through.

From what you say here, it seems as if there is still an "I" having thoughts, and an "I" talking to an "I" about thoughts and feelings passing through.

Is this the case? Please could you clarify.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It doesn't feel hugely different, but there is a subtle loosening of the grip of the self.

It is great that there is an experience of a subtle loosening.
Is there a self that can grip?

For example one day earlier this week I felt quite shut down and grey and lacking in energy and I was aware of the swirl of thoughts about this berating me for being useless and having little to give. I just rode out the storm, knowing that if I didn't attach to the thoughts and feelings they would pass through, and now I see that they didn't really have anything to do with 'me'.

This is definitely the way to go, and the seeing that the swirl of thoughts didn't have anything to do with 'me'.
But please clarify here:
Please say more about this "I" that felt shut down; this "I" that was aware etc.
Is there an "I" that is able or not able to attach to thoughts and feelings?
What is actually going on?
How is this "I" perceived?
What is it made of?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Not sure what the question is driving at.

Lets phrase this question in another way.
Is it absolutely clear from your experience, not just intellectually, that there is no separate self entity?
Was there a particular moment when this was seen, or was it a gradual seeing?
How did it happen for you?


6) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your experience.

Even though I do not appear to be in charge of my actions, I have to take responsibility for them, which is a bit of a paradox.

Please say more about this:
Is a separate "I" necessary for something called 'responsibility' to take place?

If I say something out of hand, where does that action come from? Past conditions. But I still have to take responsibility for what comes out of my mouth, and for it perhaps triggering someone's upset.

Is there a separate, autonomous 'you' that can be responsibility for what words are uttered?
Is there a separate, autonomous 'you' that is responsible for triggering someone's upset?

In some mysterious way I am part of the conditions that come together to make things happen. I haven't worked out how this works.

What needs to work out how 'this' works? Please say more about this.

Warmly,

Rowena

[Tanglier]

Hi Rowena

In the second part of this answer, it seems as if you are describing this as if there is an actual 'sense of self' that has agency.

That wasn’t my intention.

Is there an actual sense of self that can control?

No

What is this sense of self made of?

Just thoughts

Is this apparent sense of self able to give a pretty constant commentary on anything?

No, not constant, and not everything.

What is this "I" that thinks and feels and intends to do made of? Where is it located

.
It is a concoction of thoughts and feelings, so it is not made of anything with any substance. And it has no location.

Is there a personal 'self' to take things personally,

No

Is there a believer?

No

When believing is happening, what is actually going on?

A thought agreeing with another set of thoughts.

From what you say here, it seems as if there is still an "I" having thoughts, and an "I" talking to an "I" about thoughts and feelings passing through.
Is this the case? Please could you clarify.

It is very hard to answer questions without using the pronoun « I ». It is a manner of speaking and should not be taken as an admission that there is a separate sense of self. When I am aware of a commentary (or perhaps more strictly speaking, when there is an awareness of a commentary), that is the form in which the commentary takes - as of one part of « me » is talking to another part of « me ».

Is there a self that can grip?

No, but that doesn’t mean that there is never a sense of being gripped by something.

Please say more about this "I" that felt shut down; this "I" that was aware etc.

When I am attached to thoughts and feelings about « myself », which does of course happen, as it happens to all but the most enlightened of us, the sense of the self becomes stronger as the thoughts and feelings tend to centre around the « I ». The world contracts around the illusory self. But …

Is there an "I" that is able or not able to attach to thoughts and feelings?

No

What is actually going on?

As above.

How is this "I" perceived?

It isn’t really perceived, it’s more like a habitual putting two and two together and making five.

What is it made of?

Thoughts. Nothing substantial

Is it absolutely clear from your experience, not just intellectually, that there is no separate self entity?
Was there a particular moment when this was seen, or was it a gradual seeing?
How did it happen for you?

There was not a particular moment of seeing this, no. But my experience of looking inside and trying to answer your questions has not revealed any self, or the room for any self, so to that extent there is an experiential back up or corroboration to an intellectual stance.

Is a separate "I" necessary for something called 'responsibility' to take place?

No, I am saying that responsibility is usually linked to an individual self taking that responsibility, but even though there is no separate « I » responsibility still appears to be a valid thing to consider and take on board.

Is there a separate, autonomous 'you' that can be responsibility for what words are uttered?

No

Is there a separate, autonomous 'you' that is responsible for triggering someone's upset?

No. But in acknowledging that an act of ours has been unskilful and has caused hurt, we are in effect taking responsibility for it, are we not?

What needs to work out how 'this' works? Please say more about this.

I am just trying to say that it is very difficult understanding the concepts of causation and responsibility. It is perhaps more than just intellectual interest as it could help to inform our thoughts and actions.
Best wishes
Kim