Looking for my true nature

[Anastacia42]

Good morning & welcome back.

Yes all moved, but it seems like unpacking will take forever.

So, yes, here are 2 more pointers that address your questions. The short answer is that it is all thought stories & labels.



Hearing Exercise

Find somewhere quiet to sit. Rest for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Whatever it is, I'll just refer to it as 'what can be heard'.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears?

Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

What do you find?

Can an INHERENT HEARER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?


and

Time Pointer

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There's also a pointer for Memory.

Loving

[NappingCat]

Hello Stacy, nice to hear that everything's ok. I moved too last year so I know it can be stressful.

Hearing Exercise

The hearing exercise is very similar to the first exercise in the Greg Goode book I'm reading.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than 'what can be heard'?

There's definitely no object that creates the sound in "what an be heard", that is a thought that gets added later, but there's also a "quality" (I wouldn't even know hot to call it") in what can be heard that feels real and it's about the location of sound, the position in space it occupies and where doet it come from. I know that left/right/top/down/far/close are just labels added by thoughts, but as soon as hearing appears it if "feels" like it's localized in space. For example if it's the sound of a car passing by, the hearing feels like it's moving from one point to another, from one ear to the other one.

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only 'what can be heard'?

There is nothing doing the hearing in what can be heard, there is just sound appearing.

3) An 'I'? a 'body'? a 'person'? a brain? a pair of ears?

I, body, person ecc are just thoughts that appear later. There's though something that has to do with space and it looks very immediate, I can't quite separate if from what can be heard.

Can these be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what can be heard'?

There's just what can be heard, but it feels like it has a quality of coming from somewhere in space.

What do you find?
Can an INHERENT HEARER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the hearer, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Not an inherent hearer, but what can be heard feels like it's localized somewhere outside the body and can move in space.


Time Pointer

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

No, there's no now, no present moment, it's just a label. There's only this happening and labeling it as "now" or "this moment", segmenting it, only happens in thoughts.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

There are no moments, only this appearing.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

Things appear, like thoughts, hearing, colors etch but they only appear as a "series of events" in thoughts. Without these thoughts about what's appearing, everything just happens.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Awareness seems to accept everything that appears and so a lot of stuff seems to happen, more than the attention can follow or the mind can label, but everything just appears like it's "out of time". It's only the mind that puts stuff on a timeline and labels things and puts them in time-relation with each other.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No, there is no beginning here. Beginning is just a thought.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Now does not really exist, there is just this appearing. In the thoughts the "now" changes continually and so it doesn't really have a duration, or it's extremely short, but even that is a representation, a description, a thought that reflect other thoughts and beliefs (there is time -> if there's time it should be possible to divide it -> there's now, there's past, there's future and so on)

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

There's no now in reality, just this happening. In the mind the now is very short, almost instantaneous, but even that is just a concept, a belief in the existence of something called "now" that is a segment of time.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

If now exists it must have a duration, so it should be possible to divide it in half. You can continue dividing it until you supposedly arrive at a segment of time with no duration, but that doesn't make sense: if it has no duration then beginning and end overlap and are the same, past and future too would touch themselves, making this "now" useless. It doesn't make sense.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Thoughts and images that are "about" the past, but the real past is never experienced.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Only thoughts about time.

The fact that there is only this and the past cannot be directly experienced is pretty clear. The doubts that appear are thoughts regarding the reality of what these memories seem to be about. If an image of a youger Davide appears, this image seems to be about something that happened to the character in the past. That image becomes part of the story of Davide, but still the mind wants to know why that image appeared and if there really was a younger Davide that the image point to. There's fear at the idea that memories are not real. The me character is attached to his memories and wants to believe they are true. Bodily sensations appear and also thoughts like "this memory is true", "there really was a younger body at some point". Of course that younger body can only be experienced in thoughts and images that appear here, but there's still a belief that at least the body really lived that past and existed in time.

Maybe looking at what memories really are can be helpful.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, Davide. Good work.

Memory Pointer

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?

What is the memory ‘made of’?

WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has
happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?


And these:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksba3zhi9uuz ... hsk1a?dl=0

Loving,

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

What is memory exactly?

There are images appearing, and voices, sounds... it's a bit like a movie playing but it's much less vivid than what is here now. It's like shadows or ghosts of sensations: the shadow of a sound, the shadow of a color etc.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Feels like it's made of the same stuff of every other thought. No weight, no dimension, no location in space.

WHEN does the memory appear?

It appears in the same "out of time" way as everything else. It's here and then it's not here anymore.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

The "memory" thought is always "about" the past, the accompanying thought is always "this happened in the past". Also memory thoughts are not abstract, there is no logical of philosophical thinking, they are more reflections of sensory experiences.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

There is a belief, a thought that says "this memory really happened". There are also other thoughts that say "this memory is coherent with the rest of the story, so it must be true".

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

It's even less real than the memory about the past. It can be an image of what will supposedly happen, accompanied by thoughts "about" the future.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

It appears here, where there is no time.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

The only difference is that the future thought come with a belief that says "the future exists and this might happen in the future". Other than that it's the same stuff as general thoughts.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Because of other thoughts that comment on the future thought, and because of beliefs that say that the future exists and everything is moving towards it.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Only the other thoughts that accompany them. It can be thoughts about the past or thoughts about the future. The past memory is usually an impression of the senses, like the shadow of hearing, touching, seeing etc. Ultimately both past and future thoughts are just thoughts that appear here.

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?

There is a series of beliefs about time and how it functions and these beliefs sustain the interpretation of the memory or future thought, so that it appears more "real". Ultimately, in what they really are, there is no substantial difference: thoughts about past and future are both thoughts.

The more I stay with THIS, the more memories ant thoughts about the future feel evanescent and unsubstantial.

What still feels strong is the sense of physical space and of being "at the center" of what is. When the ego comes back one of the stronger arguments that it brings is "I am here at the center of everything". "I am here at the center and everything else is around this center". Do you know how to approach this belief? Feels like it's still going strong at times.

As always thank you so much for helping me, I really appreciate it.

Love,

Davide

Thank you for your help!

[Anastacia42]

You are welcome, Davide.

Ultimately both past and future thoughts are just thoughts that appear here.

Correct. Nothing but thoughts.

Isn't "center" just a thought?

Let's see what happens with this:

Headless Way

Have a look around you. You can see colous of the room, of your 'feet’, of your ‘knees’, of your ‘chest’ and perhaps of your 'hands'.

Now point a finger towards the place where others see your head and face.

What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head?

Do you see anything at all there - any colors, shapes, or any movement?

Looking into the place where others see your face, do you see colors or shapes there?

What do you find?

Loving,

Loving,

[NappingCat]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksba3zhi9uuz ... hsk1a?dl=0

I started listening to these lessons. Who's this?

Davide

[Anastacia42]

I promised not to say. He did this once or twice then went into a totally different business and did not want to mix the two.

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

I promised not to say. He did this once or twice then went into a totally different business and did not want to mix the two.

I respect that, no problem. I started listening and wow, he's very good at pointing!

Isn't "center" just a thought?

Yes, it's a thought but it's supported by many other thoughts that are believed to be true, like "there's space and this body is located in it" or "everything is separated from this body".

I'm already quite familiar with Douglas Harding and the Headless Way. I've read On Having No Head in the past and listened to Richard Lang a lot. These experiments and his way of pointing really resonate with me.

What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head?

There's no head and I can't find it, only thoughts that say that there's a head there and bodily sensations like pressure, temperature and tension in the muscles. There's also an inside/outside thought-belief, like "here is the inside and there is the outside".

Do you see anything at all there - any colors, shapes, or any movement?

I see nothing, but when the "head" is turned and everything spins there's immediately a thought saying "this is the head turning"

Looking into the place where others see your face, do you see colors or shapes there?

There's just an opening, a window into space, but the window is everything there is and includes everything, so it's more than a window, it's space where everything appears.

What do you find?

In this space where everything changes continuously there are many thoughts that seem to make a lot of assumptions about reality. Sometimes the me thought is reflected by these other thoughts and identification (selfing) happens.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

All very good.

How does it FEEL to see these things?

Loving,

[NappingCat]

How does it FEEL to see these things?

There's a sense of wonder, lightness and openness, but there's also some anxiety and frustration. The mind still wants to understand this and there's fear that "I" am not good enough to "get" this. There's also anxiety about the possibility that what has been seen (the delusion of the me) will be forgotten and everything will be back where it started. Fear and anxiety (and wonder, lightness, openness) are just bodily sensations like contraction and vibration, plus thoughts.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

There's a sense of wonder, lightness and openness,

Excellent. That sounds like a shift in perception that we are looking for.

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi

and then these:

Have you seen these?

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

This is just a beginning.

Loving

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

I've watched all the material you linked in the previous post and it helped a lot in accepting fear and doubt and anchoring more in what is.

Doubt has subsided and it's seen more quickly as what it is: just more mind stuff appearing and telling some stories.

Fear invites you to listen to the body sensations, it's just a call, an invitation, it's there to protect the me even if the me it's just a story. Fear is a guardian that wants to protect the me from imagined future pain.

I'm still listening to the "I am complete" series, I'm halfway through. I'm going slow with these because I want to absorb them as much as possible, it's very powerful stuff. So far each meditation is seen to point to that space, that gap that is always here and doesn't need to be found because it's where everything in it is found. It's very open and un-contracted.

There's still a strong will to understand everything, to get to the truth of it all, and that can be distracting. The mind is still trying to understand it rationally, to deepen this realization through logic and rationality. It still wants to solve everything. This force leads to distraction and diversion in the form of reading a lot of books and watching a lot of videos about awakening, nonduality, zen etc. It's never enough, there's a deep hunger for this and I feel like it's a form of escaping what's here in the body. Any insight of how to deal with this?

This quote from Elena in the Gatecrashers book really hit me:

There’s nothing there to find. But here—this is subtle—if you keep looking, hoping that you’ll finally ‘get’ it? You’re waiting for your self to get it. Right?

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Hi Davide

each meditation is seen to point to that space, that gap that is always here and doesn't need to be found

Yes.

Any insight of how to deal with this?

It will fall away on its own once you see.

It is like finding out the Ssnta is just a man in a suit. Once you see that you don't go looking for him anymore.

Take your time with the meditations.

Notice and report here how it FEELS to see.

Loving,

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

Notice and report here how it FEELS to see.

Right now here there are bodily sensations, the pressure of the body on the couch, the pressure of the laptop on the legs, the pressure of the hands on the keyboard, the pressure of each finger on the keys. There is sound, dogs barking in the distance, traffic from the street. There is color, shapes, light (which is just a brighter shade of color). Everything changes constantly, nothing stays the same.

There's contraction in the chest, thoughts that comment on this contraction. Thoughts about anxiety, about this process of inquiry. Most of the thoughts are about this "me" character or point to it.

This contraction with thoughts about anxiety comes often, but even this is a thought, just a story about a body that feels contracted, about an individual who is anxious.

There are thoughts about the "me" and his need to know, to understand more in order to control everything and be safe.

It's just this, it's just this being this in every possible form and expression. Thoughts are an expression of this and the thoughts that say "I believe this" or "this is true" are no different from other thoughts, they just seem to come together with feelings of contraction in the body. The me who is trying to understand all of this is just another thought. Frustration is just the body contracting plus some thoughts about this me character not getting what he wants.

The "me" that is worried about past and future not existing is also part of the story.

Sometimes it feels like "true" and "false" have no real meaning, and then thoughts like "it's dangerous" or "you'll become crazy" will appear, along with bodily sensations labeled as fear.

Staying here, but there's no one staying, accepting what already is, but there's no one accepting. Words are the worst tool for this, it's like trying to grab water with a net.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Very thorough. You grabbed a lot of water with that net.

You mentioned anxiety & danger.

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

Loving