Jen seeking guidance

[graceabounds]

If I let them all go, then I’m floaty feeling

How does this work, to let them go? Is it a decision of some kind or just something that happens as the sensations move and resolve on their own?

Initially a little checked out like when sleepy but if come into everything then there’s a vividness and wonder and aliveness

Sounds pretty nice. :)
Is this vividness and wonder direct experience?

Do things still happen if there is no one motivating or staying ‘on task’? Was there ever anyone doing this? What is seen relative to this?

[Jenness]

How does this work, to let them go? Is it a decision of some kind or just something that happens as the sensations move and resolve on their own?

It feels like a decision, to loosen the tension, but if i look, that decision and thoughts leading to it happened on their own

Is this vividness and wonder direct experience?

Wasn’t completely sure what a direct experience is, but starting to get a sense of the sense of directly being the experience with less thoughts in between. It’s kind of intense and uncomfortable, though loosens a little bit with some time with it looking at the thoughts that say it’s uncomfortable. The thoughts are pretty sticky thought unless i actively loosen the tensions. Seems there’s a strong belief that when there’s tension, there’s something to resist. Left the tensions there and watched the thoughts, and the tensions started to soften and move, releasing more uncomfortable sensations. Threw a tag on the moving sensations through the leg bones and out the head as “pleasant,” which you’d mentioned before, and they became more pleasant but the rollercoaster, nothing to hold on feeling comes with it, and is labeled “uncomfortable “ and “annoying” , like “i don’t want to feel like I’m on a rollercoaster all the time.” Threw “freeing lack of control” on it, and it felt a bit better

Do things still happen if there is no one motivating or staying ‘on task’? Was there ever anyone doing this? What is seen relative to this?

Physical needs very much get met. The rest is more hit or miss, like responding to people’s messages etc. But things still definitely happen still. Can’t find a person doing this. Seen relative to this? Maybe it shifts what i do but things I have to do , I’ll still do

[graceabounds]

Hi Jen,

Very good looking.

It feels like a decision, to loosen the tension, but if i look, that decision and thoughts leading to it happened on their own

Is there any decision, or 'choice', that is not like this?

Can’t find a person doing this.

Is it clear there is no doer, or just that you can't find the doer (who could still exist)?

[Jenness]

Is there any decision, or 'choice', that is not like this?

Oh right, no, it’s all like this..

Is it clear there is no doer, or just that you can't find the doer (who could still exist)?

I don’t believe there’s a doer anymore logically but in heedlessness through the day, i still believe I’m doing things..until I look. Sadness underlying, like deep sadness. Nothing I can change. Can’t make the self better. It can’t accept things as is, but doesn’t an alternate way.. it’s a very unhappy , hopeless camper . But comes with more relief and stillness, but still hopeful the sadness will shift and I’ll just accept things more and not feel so bad about it

[graceabounds]

don’t believe there’s a doer anymore logically but in heedlessness through the day, i still believe I’m doing things..until I look

Very good. Keep looking then. :)

Now drill down on sadness, where is it? what is it without the label ‘sadness’? Describe the pure sensation.

Does a ‘you’ want the ‘sadness’ to go away?
Can you find an actual entity that owns the sadness?

[Jenness]

Hi Becca!

Very good. Keep looking then. :)

Been looking but it’s still here. Will continue looking

Now drill down on sadness, where is it? what is it without the label ‘sadness’? Describe the pure sensation.

Feels like an ache deep in the middle of the chest, feeling sadness has felt better. It’s kind of like there’s a hole in the middle of my chest and it sucks things into it towards the spine. Been having more frustration, which feels more like energy moving upwards and fight or flight activates like muscles tenses and heart rate goes up. Prob in response to underlying sadness and fear not accepted yet. Like wanting things to be different but seeing there’s not much I can do. Frustration about people, the world, and about my social fears, and fear I think feels unacceptable because it’s weak and powerlessness and don’t like lack of fortitude/control over fear response. Fear is also fight or flight response like heart rate increase, tension more in head though because trying to control using brain rather than fighting, and then when tensions loosened, then it more moves outwards and back vs the the up for anger. Always had a hard time with how trusting awareness is going to protect me (fear) or make things externally okay (sadness). But can feel into, okay if i don’t push against the fear and sadness, then there’s an immovabilty that would help me best able to protect myself to extent possible given that we’ll never be guaranteed safety and draw boundaries if needed, and for sadness, there’s a sense things are okay despite circumstances because sadness is okay and that’s the main “symptom” of the situation. Been sad about physical discomfort/feeling ill. About lack of ability to avoid that. Attachment to comfort and health. A bit looser with having felt the sadness. A bit more “oh well,” do what I can to take care of body and the rest I can’t avoid.

Does a ‘you’ want the ‘sadness’ to go away?
Can you find an actual entity that owns the sadness?

Cannot find it. Just sensations, sadness label, a thought about “I want to fully feel this so it’ll clear” but no I it’s referencing to be found. Same for fear. Feel the energy, no one feeling it once I look, it’s just there’s experience of fear energy so something is able to experience. With tension, same thing, sensations, and a thought that it’s a tension in “my” head, that it’s uncomfortable for “me.” Same thing with physically feeling ill, a sensation, a thoguht that it’s uncomfortable , thought that it might not go away and might stick around for months like before , and then fear labeled sensations, sadness labeled sensations at lack of control or certainty over it. Self label attached to body to feel like I’m here experiencing these things.

[graceabounds]

Really clear looking here, you’re actually mapping how emotions appear in the body and how the “self” thought attaches to them.

Are any of these sensations you describe a problem?

… not any of the stories about them, just the sensations

[Jenness]

Are any of these sensations you describe a problem?

… not any of the stories about them, just the sensations

The stories say they’re a problem. But still bought into them so still uncomfortable. “I can’t just leave them be. I can’t be happy if they’re here.” But also won’t let go of the sensations. “I can’t just let them go, let go of the thoughts leading to them, because I can’t be happy without getting something from life.” Seems to be a stuck system. Wish it would loosen faster, but tried and got tricked for a bit until re-realizing it’s going to keep doing that. Hard to loosen from “it’s a problem” thought when emotions owned by a self. Went back into finder the owner of the sensations, and it’s a watcher that’s hiding kind of well. When watcher/owner is seen, sensations don’t feel like a problem, but it pops back in so fast..It has some belief that it can do things better and it’s needed to be there. It knows what’s good and bad and it has a plan to get us what’s good and without it, we can’t get what’s good, because we’d have no discernment and no plan..

[graceabounds]

I know there is this thought idea of stuckness, but there is a lot seen here and a lot unraveling.

When watcher/owner is seen, sensations don’t feel like a problem, but it pops back in so fast..It has some belief that it can do things better and it’s needed to be there. It knows what’s good and bad and it has a plan to get us what’s good and without it, we can’t get what’s good, because we’d have no discernment and no plan..

Of course it does! And also this watcher... is not a real thing.

Next time the watcher appears, don’t try to remove it. Instead look: What is the watcher made of right now?
What is seen?

And when it IS seen through... does life keep happening? Breathing, attention moving, etc?

[Jenness]

I know there is this thought idea of stuckness, but there is a lot seen here and a lot unraveling.

This was encouraging to hear, thanks. It does seem like things are shifting, but I can’t tell exactly what it is. There’s been a few times where it felt like something was seen, and there was some fear, and then the fear left, but i don’t remember what exactly was seen in those times, but it does seem to leave things a little different after, just not super clear how..

Next time the watcher appears, don’t try to remove it. Instead look: What is the watcher made of right now?
What is seen?

Did this Wed and it was helpful. The watcher was made out of nothing, just a thought. Harder time finding it today though. There’s kind of a hazy quality around the head, so it’s harder to find the watcher. Seems when I have a hazy quality there’s avoidance of sensations. If I come closer, even though I can’t who’s coming closer, then body sensations become more clear and intense, but still having a hard time finding the same watcher. It more feels like there’s. Sensation in the body, not that’s it’s directly my sensation, and the body feels Iike mine. Looked for whose it is and can’t find it, just this weighed feeling of here-ness in the body, like there’s a something living in this body. Brings up a bit of fear to not find an owner for this body, so that seems good. Feels kind of like being left alone, like no one protecting. And then found a “me” around center of back. Once look at it, then “me” is referring to whole body now. Once see that and can’t find the me, now “me” is around head. Once look at head, now it’s in chest area. Feels like whack a mole, so let go of tensions the label, and more fear. Seeing thoughts come up that are owned by a thinker , that “me” is around chest area and also head area. Tried telling self “there’s no one here.” Fear came up. And then then “me” back in head.

And when it IS seen through... does life keep happening? Breathing, attention moving, etc?

It’s a little sticky, that watcher.. but I look at the do-er, which is easier to find because the ownership feels stronger, then there’s fear and the sense that the body is doing things on its own. Comes back pretty quickly though..

[graceabounds]

Great. Keep looking directly each time it appears, even if it feels like whack a mole :)

Seems when I have a hazy quality there’s avoidance of sensations. If I come closer, even though I can’t who’s coming closer, then body sensations become more clear and intense,

Very good. This haze is often a defense mechanism. When sensations get close to being seen clearly, the system sometimes introduces fogginess, dissociation or spaciness. It’s a way to avoid the intensity of what might be uncovered (often fear). When it is examined closer the sensations sharpen, as you saw.


Who exactly is unprotected right now?

[Jenness]

Great. Keep looking directly each time it appears, even if it feels like whack a mole :)

Okay! Feels a little easier to find the self label, and fear comes up as soon as attention is placed on the body looking for the self. It likes to go to just a few areas, whole body, head (thinker or watcher), back (owner of emotions), doer is harder to find but seems also is head when it’s claiming ownership over the command/prediction thought of “I’m going to do this”

Then fear leads to fog out

Very good. This haze is often a defense mechanism. When sensations get close to being seen clearly, the system sometimes introduces fogginess, dissociation or spaciness. It’s a way to avoid the intensity of what might be uncovered (often fear). When it is examined closer the sensations sharpen, as you saw.

And trying to see what’s actually happening. Fog seems everywhere but if there isn’t a me to come closer or further, trying to see what’s happening when i come closer to sensations to sharpen it up. Also unclear what the fog itself is, if it’s a sensation or attention shifted away. Think by focusing attention on a smaller area, like a head tension, the rest of the sensory experiences can get fogged out, but not sure. Will come back. But unfogging it definitely feels very intense and hard to stay with without letting it fog over again. But the fogging over also doesn’t work as well if I’m watching it as it tries to activate because seems to have to trick me into thinking fogginess is just the natural current state of things and for me to not realize it’s hiding something. So it’s not really helping as much with fogging out intensity. Also then realized still thinking there’s a me to be tricked, and that me was hiding as watcher in back of head. More intensity, sadness , panic

Who exactly is unprotected right now?

Just that whack a mole label. The tighter the tension, the stronger the sense of me and harder to see through. But looking at it, and it’s because there’s a doer in there thinking it’s the one tightening the tensions but can’t find it. And then add in fogginess to the mix and it appears that a self could be there but hidden by fog. As stay with it , fog thins a bit, then just that intensity of sensations again and it’s distracting and hard to feel like i can clearly see through the self labels. Might take getting more used to the intensity

[graceabounds]

Also unclear what the fog itself is, if it’s a sensation or attention shifted away.

Does it need to be either/or? Could it be a number of things?

Is there anyone responsible for ‘staying with this’? Anyone who could be, as you say, ‘tricked’?

What happens if nothing is controlling this?
Is anything actually in control of this moment?

:)

[Jenness]

Saw this late and ran out of time to do it before a trip but will keep it in mind in next few days and be back Monday!

[Jenness]

Does it need to be either/or? Could it be a number of things?

Guess it doesn’t matter what it is.. it’s just sensations and if don’t mind it either way or make it into anything, then.. it doesn’t block anything

Is there anyone responsible for ‘staying with this’? Anyone who could be, as you say, ‘tricked’?

Just a little tag of me on sensation but no actually entity to be found. That releases waves of energy. Feels like endless waves. Have to come back and look again and let more release

What happens if nothing is controlling this?
Is anything actually in control of this moment?

Same as above, just a label on a head tension, but no one there that can be found. Fear comes up if nothing is controlling this. It appears certain conditions lead to other conditions, like believing in a thought is more likely if there’s a sense of a self that was believed in. Can’t find thing in control of this moment

Was trying to understand how it can appear as if not one is in charge but still be caught in desires like i’m eating snacks right now and also resisting going to get ready to go to bed to get enough sleep. But i don’t think it can, it only can if there’s a thought of “looks like no one is here” or ‘yes, no one is in control” rather than that being the actual experience and then narratively it’s more just a blank, don’t know anything, kind of state. But very hard to stay in that state. Sensations are made into something that means something and is good or bad and has to be responded to , basically as soon as they arise. And then when one is seen through , it keeps shifting and then it happens again. And then i guess no one is caught, but there’s a condition of a believed story that happens and a person that can live a life and try to get what they want is created. And there seems to be a preference for that instead of a sense of no one here. Not sure why, feels easier or familiar and thoguht it felt more true but actually not sure it does