Requesting a guide.

[IainB]

5b)

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Thought content is known and considered as right, or valid. There is identification with thought content - that it corresponds with a wider happening for the character. By way of example, thought content 'there is a meeting at 10.30am taking place' is known. There is further though content 'this meeting is relevant to me' and 'if I am late or miss this meeting there will be a stream of unwanted thought and sensations'. In this way thought is given credence if further thought offers validation as part of a wider plan or program conceived.

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian,

I have just picked up your last two posts. Thank you . Lovely to hear from you.

Please allow me a couple of days and I’ll respond.

With best wishes

Jon

[IainB]

Thanks Jon, it is good to know that you are out there.

I'm just working through the remaining points.

5c) Describe free will & give examples from experience.

This world appears. Thoughts are known. A character is described in thought, and thoughts also label this character as having varying degrees of volition and autonomy as a separate thing negotiating a separate world. By way of example. I sit here and there are thoughts of a need to go to work, thought shows as an image of me travelling, and more of me doing tasks. There are more thoughts about the importance of this and the consequences of not acting. All these assume elements of choice. There is a pull towards belief that the character could, or could not do things. This forgets that experience itself, and what shows up in experience does so without influence. It works one way in that it happens and is known. There is not a separate knower who has influence over what happens and appears.

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian

Thank you for going in with writing the examples.

I am actually more struck by your words here :

For years I thought self enquiry and non-duality modalities in general, and LU seeing more specifically as (rather naively) equating to some upgrade in wellbeing. 'Getting this' would mean life was easier, happier and somehow more free (whatever that might mean). That there would be reassurance and reconciliation with the at times, confusing and uncomfortable experience of being. I'm sure there were attempts to caution me this was not the case, but of course these were disregarded in the always-on seeking to find more okay-ness. After all, it was accepted that awakening modalities were the answer to suffering, dissatisfaction, a lack of self acceptance and the wish to be recognised, to be special. It would be pointless to adopt blame for this, as fundamentally I am a being in a flow of seemingly good and bad experiences and entirely vulnerable to wishing to be more okay, and less not okay.

Instead, to borrow a word from a friend, it all seems very stark. It is as though belief in a me, and unexamined familiarity with a body here and participation in a familiar ongoing dynamic with other bodies and characters is a dream like hypnosis and while in ways illusory, is in place for a 'purpose'. A purpose in as much as to look outside it is extremely stark and disconcerting. It is simply a bizarre mystery as to why, or what is going on, but moreover there is an absence of comforting places to turn or answers to be got. The Being is scrambled and there is a wish to scurry back to the dream as a comfort zone where things kinda make sense (in a dream like illusory way), and there is hope and answers. Of course, when the bizarre mystery is known, it is no longer possible to be asleep in the preceding dream.

This doesn't answer the remaining questions on doer-ship however.

There can be disappointment, where expectations are not met. And it is quite common for some seekers to find themselves in a nihilistic kind of space soon after noticing that there’s no self. This doesn’t have to be a permanent condition unless it crystallizes into a new fixed view of life.

I’ve often found it hard to decipher some of your longer paragraphs. It tends to be easier (for me) to communicate using fewer words that get to the point, even if bluntly sometimes. I wish you would. This is not a criticism at all; just a request to say things in fewer words, to be concise and to stop trying to say quite so much. Does that make sense? Is that fair? I’m certain you could be more economical with words and get to your points directly.


Do you see a danger in adopting a fixed view of life as “stark”?


But let’s say that stark is how it seems.

Have you tried sitting with the starkness?


What if starkness just shows up because it wants to be seen , recognised, accepted? Is there a recoiling from starkness?

Let me know what you think of what I’ve said

Best wishes

Jon

[IainB]

Hi Jon,

Does that make sense? Is that fair?

Sure.

I'm grateful for you taking the time to read any reply.

I have no idea if my thoughts and what ends up appearing in text has any merit, any validity.

Do you see a danger in adopting a fixed view of life as “stark”?

I can agree to this point as a common sense suggestion.

Have you tried sitting with the starkness?

I really used starkness to describe the surprise of finding myself here. I'm not sure if it's something I can sit with.

What if starkness just shows up because it wants to be seen, recognised, accepted? Is there a recoiling from starkness?

So life just wants to seen? I need to come to terms with experiencing first. There is a recoil that I sought reconciliation, 'home', comfort but I don't see that any of that is on offer. I don't feel equipped or ready.

Thanks, Iain

[IainB]

Hi Jon

What if starkness just shows up because it wants to be seen, recognised, accepted? Is there a recoiling from starkness?

I do wish to be conciliatory towards what is, accepting rather than fighting / hostile. So your suggestion within your question is very much heard and attended to.

with love

[JonathanR]

Afternoon Ian

Thanks for your two posts

There is a recoil that I sought reconciliation, 'home', comfort but I don't see that any of that is on offer. I don't feel equipped or ready.

Yeah I think that recoil seems to be quite common wherever there was an expectation of how no self should look. Comfort maybe not, reconciliation maybe not. How do you feel about what’s ordinarily described as “body” though? Is there a freedom to explore sensations? To be “at home” with these or in them , for instance in your feet, or noticing nature, the life going on everywhere , in weather, sky, trees, animals, plants and so on?

Not feeling ready seems to be classic. Some have described it as like vertigo, falling. Alan Watts said this but then added that although it’s exactly like falling you don’t actually crash into anything :)

I do wish to be conciliatory towards what is, accepting rather than fighting / hostile. So your suggestion within your question is very much heard and attended to.

It could be very interesting to take a look at or for what fights or resists. Don’t make the mistake of resisting the resistance ; that complicates things further, but just notice exactly how this resistance of hostility shows up. Even thank it for showing up , give it a hug, tell it you love it very much and ask it what it really wants.

Love

Jon

[IainB]

Jon,

How do you feel about what’s ordinarily described as “body” though? Is there a freedom to explore sensations? To be “at home” with these or in them, for instance in your feet

This is useful. To come back to the simplicity of sensation.

noticing nature, the life going on everywhere, in weather, sky, trees, animals, plants and so on?

I was touched and influenced by your video a while ago where you shared the value of experiencing nature remaining, after seeing through the self illusion. Yes, it is unbelievable and simple and beautiful what appears.

It could be very interesting to take a look at or for what fights or resists.

It seems a lot was invested in 'figuring this out', or reaching a conclusion or coming to a solution. There is grief that this can't take place. Rather that Alan Wattsesque fall to nowhere.

with love

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian

Good to hear from you.

This is useful. To come back to the simplicity of sensation.

Absolutely. It doesn’t have to be turned into a ‘practice’ because it’s always available. It doesn’t have to be special or amazing, but sometimes it can be. . Sensations just are.

I was touched and influenced by your video a while ago where you shared the value of experiencing nature remaining, after seeing through the self illusion. Yes, it is unbelievable and simple and beautiful what appears.

Sometimes people seem to drop into a nihilist view for a while, but somehow nature isn’t nihilistic. It can be an antidote to nihilism, but again, nature isn’t a “practice” either. It just IS. How “separate” actually are we from nature? (By which I mean the immediate experience of nature as felt presence).

It seems a lot was invested in 'figuring this out', or reaching a conclusion or coming to a solution. There is grief that this can't take place. Rather that Alan Wattsesque fall to nowhere.

Gotcha! Well, it might be worth considering that that “figuring out” might have gone on ad infinitum, constantly frustrating , if it hadn’t been seen for what it was. It can take time for the “doer” aka “mind” to relax about the fact that life is one step ahead and always was. Spiritual narratives can create confusion when there’s no pot of gold , as may have been imagined. But there really can be a kind of relaxing.

Love

Jon

[IainB]

Hi Jon,

How “separate” actually are we from nature? (By which I mean the immediate experience of nature as felt presence).

There is no separation when nature is known.

I've not been so nihilistic recently. For a time it seemed bizarre and strange to have ended up here, and to be plagued by a character in thought. Recently forgiveness and love has been present, and even a loving attitude towards thought as it appears.

with love, Iain

[IainB]

Hi Jon,

Sorry this does rather break the too long advice.

I recall your guided point from before, how it is equally possible to see the character as empty, as for a character to be conceived.

It's helpful for me to watch a sequence of thoughts about Iain's life.

There follows a natural relaxing to a neutral position, one where it is known those thoughts appeared, but they are not longer up close and immersed in.

It is considered how those thoughts are just an interlinked series of reactions and responses that seemingly link back to early life experiences.

Contemporaneous 'thought' characters and scenarios appear with an embedded messages. They would seem to be proxies for early life hurts, unmet needs and impactful events, none of which there was any control over.

Seen as this, these blossoming conceptions are seen as a revolving, empty, self-perpetuating reaction / response playing out.

Rather than these seizing attention, as each current message appears, there's a real step back, a space observing what's going on.

That character and series of messages are not me and never were me nor do they actually express anything about me.

They are really unnecessary and not welcome to take centre stage in the way they do with attention falling into them and there being conviction that their message of right or wrong has any truth or merit.

Not welcome in as much as to see the truth about that thought character and associated messages allows it to be known that it and they have nothing to do with me.

This leaves a being (funny flesh creature) here seamlessly with ever changing environment with other beings, familiar and alien at the same time. Life going about being Life.

With love, Iain