gibraltar liberation

[graceabounds]

Who does thought want to distract?

Who is noticing the emptiness?

Close your eyes and drop even the idea of meditating or observing.

Just this:
Notice what is — the breath, sound, sensation, silence — without labeling it as yours.

Now drop even the noticing. Let it all just happen without a center.

Where is the boundary?

Where is the observer?

Where is the controller, the one “battling distraction”?

If the familiar sense of space is there — then that’s all there is. The rest is a ghost story.

[Sukie]

Is anybody there?? HA aha...excuse the pun :)

[Sukie]

ok sorry found your last post, its me that didn't respond....will you still continue with me please?

[graceabounds]

Hi! Yes of course.
Would you like to continue by looking into the last questions asked? If they don’t feel relevant now, then perhaps give an update as to what is present now?

Becca

[Sukie]

Hi yes please :) Give me a few days, things getting hectic for Xmas.

I did try this but came up with no answers...it was a while ago, I'll have another go...

[graceabounds]

If nothing comes of it this time around, just give me a general update on what comes up when you look for ‘I’

Happy holidays!

[Sukie]

So thoughts arise without my input, all constructs are thought, when there is no thought, there is awareness and familiarity, as if I am still there even though I am a concept

[graceabounds]

Hi Sukie,

Are these general reflections or responses to the questions asked here?

Reading back through the last two pages, the posts you are making seem to have no connection to the guiding or inquiries.

So are you trying to just meditate and do things your way? Or are you ready to engage in this format, which is sitting and looking into the questions posted here and answering directly.

If the latter answer these two questions in your next post:

when there is no thought, there is awareness and familiarity, as if I am still there even though I am a concept

Can you find where this “still there” is located?

What is actually here that is not a thought?

[Sukie]

Im sorry, i am trying to answer your questions...

Can you find where this “still there” is located?
no, I cannot, there is just the space in which thoughts arise maybe

What is actually here that is not a thought?
maybe nothing, there is focussing of attention to keep the space free of thought, and when no thought arises....theres the space in which thought arises...
the space isnt anything, its a sound that arises, then a thought, then a sensation

[graceabounds]

Great.

there is focussing of attention to keep the space free of thought

Take a look. Is there anyone in control of the focusing? Or is focusing just happening?

Is focusing something you do?

[Sukie]

focussing on the space is constant effort, attention gets dragged away to thoughts, when it notices sounds or breath it seems to be one with these but its hard to keep thoughts from dragging me away

[graceabounds]

Turn around and look at the mechanism of focusing, not the space itself.

Is there a “me” resisting thoughts? Or just thought pulling, and attention going?

Can attention be controlled?
Can you stop it from moving?
Can you choose what arises?

when it notices sounds or breath it seems to be one with these

Yes. Because there isn’t identification with (and resulting resistance to) breather like there is with thinker.

For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: 
 Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all color. 
 Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them. 
 And notice that you're not making them happen. 
 You're not
conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of. 


And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience. 
 You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not
orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.

[Sukie]

Turn around and look at the mechanism of focusing, not the space itself.

Is there a “me” resisting thoughts? Or just thought pulling, and attention going?

Can attention be controlled?
Can you stop it from moving?
Can you choose what arises?


I have worked with this and I feel that its not a focussing mechanism but presence, when I am present with what I am doing, that is focus, then thoughts pull attention away, I can't control this. I can't control when I come back to presence when Im the grip of thoughts.

Thoughts arise independent of me, determined by outside stimuli and neuronal connections. I don't think them in this situation. Yes they are like sounds, etc. There is degrees of getting absorbed in sound...and in thought, some I can be aware of and maintain focus on what i want and others I can't.

Maybe thoughts seem different because they have personal content and they seem designed to get my attention.

Who is that I, back to that familiar conscious presence....


For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: 
 Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all color. 
 Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them. 
 And notice that you're not making them happen. 
 You're not
conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of. 


Yes agree with all this, its all arising independent of me

[graceabounds]

Maybe thoughts seem different because they have personal content and they seem designed to get my attention.

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”. For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

some I can be aware of and maintain focus on what i want and others I can't.

So if you can’t control thoughts and can’t control thoughts pulling attention away, is there control of awareness or focus? Or is this just another thought after the fact claiming so? Take a look.

[Sukie]

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


1. I don’t feel like one is truer than the other.
2. The experience of breathing, sitting, etc is here without the labelling

3.The labels don’t affect the experience

4. The body was noticeably calmer without the labels but that may just have been because I had been sitting for 10 minutes by then

So if you can’t control thoughts and can’t control thoughts pulling attention away, is there control of awareness or focus? Or is this just another thought after the fact claiming so? Take a look.

Actually I can’t really control focus, I can try to maintain awareness on something but that doesn’t work for long, I feel like it works for a little while, more than it used it but soon enough attention is swept away and it comes back when it wants.