I want to see this!

[graceabounds]

Yes, the difference in the body is what matters here. The body knows that ‘I’ is a lie. It is a construct that is, in fact, fiction. Unnecessary.

So begin to notice when being out and about or in answering these questions here if there is relaxation or tension.

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes.

Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

[graceabounds]

Oh yes, and Merry Christmas 🎄

[ManicMonk]

Hi!

> If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side.

Err… quick question: why would that go on the self side?

Best

Daniel

[graceabounds]

(I am) hungry.

or even

“I want donuts but shouldn’t have them”

:)

[ManicMonk]

Currently very relevant issues for me! Christmas overeating starting early… good stuff to practice on! :)

Thank you! I’ll let you know when I found out more! :)

[graceabounds]

Yes, who is the judge of over-eating? 🙃

[ManicMonk]

Sooo... can there not just be judgment without an I? 😅

I'm gonna figure it out, one way or another! :)

[graceabounds]

Excellent question. You tell me…

Who does she think she is questioning judgement right before the holidays!!! 😂

[ManicMonk]

Hi! :)

Merry Christmas, I hope you had - and are having - a good time. I / we had. We had fun with the kids, and although I was dead tired to start out with, I eventually caught a good strategic nap, and it all went uphill from there. I'm very content & at peace now, especially for Christmas time :)

---

Ok! Brass tacks! I just did the 5 minutes experiment - and - yes - even though I _could_ argue for a more 50/50 split between "self" and "other" by a more literal interpretation ("does the sentence directly refer to "I" or "myself""), but in truth the I / self thoughts are dominant.

_But_ I'd say it's also a matter of "priming" - I was basically _looking_ for "I" messages, given the task given, so my brain was basically starting thinking sentences with "I..." and trying to fill in the blanks.

Or we could also turn it around and say: It feels like a habit, where the brain starts with "I... " and then waits for the improvisation theatre to fill in the next words to create something resembling a coherent sentence.

This felt a bit like the new modern LLMs, these AIs, work, where they start with a piece of a sentence, and from then on generate _something_ going forward - but that doesn't mean that something _specific_ had to be said, just that _something_ had to be said, if you know what I mean.

Or it's like a childrens / party game where you start a sentence or story with one word and everyone adds another word to it to create a new sentence. If that makes sense.

SOOO it feels like there's a habitual forming of thought patterns starting or centering around "I".

I also know that I _can_ prime my brain differently, eg. from the previous exercises here, where we practiced writing down our observations either in an "I" form or in a general form "something is happening / something occurred".

So I have "primed" myself before to think more in "general" terms before, in not-so-i terms. And practicing / observing this in action, in my daily life, I feel that "I" feel calmer and more... balanced in general when /not/ thinking from the "I" so much . Much less needy and unhappy.

By the way, a part (sciency old rational me) also still is slightly worried that we just might be lobotomizing / getting rid of a valuable psychological function when giving up the "I", in a way relinquishing / abandoning part of our mental faculties, which seemingly include a lot of worrying for the world, feeling responsible for our surroundings, society etc etc.... Eg. stop worrying and learn to love the bomb? Isn't that abdicating responsibility for our own (not-) doing?

Sorry if that is a bit of a digression from the pure "seeing" exercises here and I will defer these for later if you say so. But it's on my mind.

Thank you for reading and have a nice post-christmas and pre-new-year

Daniel

So, that's it. That are my observations about my thoughts!

[graceabounds]

Hi Daniel,

Great, you noticed the “I”-centered thoughts are habitual, almost a game of fill-in-the-blank. Beautiful. You saw the script running. But now look: What is it that notices this script? Is that noticing “I”-centered? Or is it simply present, regardless of the story?

Now to the lobotomy question:
The premise here is that we aren’t changing anything. We aren’t eliminating anything. Just looking to see if what is being assumed actually exists, or if it is a mirage… meaning it never existed. Nothing to eliminate or reject.

So, can you find, in direct experience, an “I” who is in charge? Or is there just the thought of responsibility, the feeling of care, the urge to worry, all arising on their own?

Does responsibility require a story of “me”? Or does caring for the kids just happen, without a central narrator?

Over here, the stockings were still hung, the holiday dinner still made, nothing stopped with the disappearance of the illusion of the one needing to do the turning. :)

Happy Holidays,
Becca

[ManicMonk]

Hello Becca!

I'm back again... :)

From the family events and so on. Excursions. It was nice.

Things feel definitely lighter and "more easy" then... let's say a few months ago.

Anyways. I was kind-of having your previous question in mind, but as it sometimes seems to happen, not really - when I re-read your posts, I often notice that I had remembered it differently...

Ok - but I just re-did the previous task, observing my thoughts for five minutes, trying to identify / count "I"-centered thoughts and not-I-centered thoughts, just to have some objects / thoughts to observe.

To your question:

> Great, you noticed the “I”-centered thoughts are habitual, almost a game of fill-in-the-blank. Beautiful. You saw the script running. But now look: What is it that notices this script? Is that noticing “I”-centered? Or is it simply present, regardless of the story?

That noticing isn't "I-centered" per se (not using the word / concept of I per se), but I have to say I still feel like "I" or something from "my perspective" can - or is trying to - manipulate my stream of thoughts, depending on what I want / not want to think about.

Eg. when trying to "calm" my thoughts, it feels like "I" can make them stutter and/or interrupt them, to a point of them kind of being scattered for a bit (til they come back / sometimes subtly, through the backdoor / feels like on a different "level" or volume) - buy still.

Working with these questions, "I" am aiming my attention - and thoughts - at exactly these processes.

Eg: "What was I supposed to be looking out for again? Ah the thing that listens for the thoughts and decides whether they're I-centered or not" - that's an actual example from the last 5 minutes - experiment.

So - I feel the thoughts can be goal-driven as well as being liked / disliked, and it feels like i'm throwing invisible "tennis balls" at them to direct them into one direction or another :D

I _had_ at one point an insight that "the thing / part that is watching the thoughts, as well as the meta-thoughts about the thoughts, at some point can't be / aren't thoughts themselves, as they are observing / noticing the thoughts".

That sounded / felt relatively clear for a moment, though now i'm not sure whether that theory is 100% sound and foolproof. I mean, there could be "other types of thought" maybe, like different thought-receptors, I mean, which aren't inner dialog, but may have other functions.

ANYWAY! I just wanted to report back and get back on the horse again!

Unless further instructions are perceived, I'll continue repeating the 5-minutes - experiment and try to see what is noticing these thoughts.

Thank you, and a happy new year!

Looking forward to be hearing from you, have a good time and a great start of 2026.

All the best!

[graceabounds]

Hello Daniel.

Happy Newest year!

This is great. :)

When the urge arises to “control” thoughts, is there a thing doing the controlling, or is there just a thought of control with a story of “me” trying to direct?

Right now, as you try to “watch” your thoughts or “aim” your attention, can you find any entity behind the action, or is there just action, just the movement, just the arising and passing of thoughts, with the label “I” arriving a millisecond later?

Here are further instructions. Have fun!

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

:)
Becca

[ManicMonk]

Hello Becca!

How are you doing?

I've experimented with my hands.

Can't keep myself from making this silly remark: Hand goes up - hand goes down - can't explain that! (Not sure if you get the reference, but I HAD to write this. My hands are - what's the opposite of tied, DRAWN to type this ;) )

ANYWHO

Yes this is all very strange. Whilst practicing and reading on these topics of none-the-less or none-ness of being (a self) / anything? - I feel like I feel a lot of not feeling anything, at least not anything substantive / weighty / physical in the space where I thought my brain activity, subconscious and feeling mechanisms were located. Decisions, thoughts, and even the words out of my mouth, just seem to manifest, and it feels a bit weird not to take ownership or feel responsible for them anymore - am I abdicating responsibility for my behaviour? Is that good? But then - WHO is abdicating my responsibilities? Maybe I should try looking at THAT! too!

Things just seem to be happening out of thin air - and actually even my arms seem to be connected to warm fluffy nothingness when they are resting on the table and suddenly lift themselves - or they get lifted - by something.

I (who?) *can* of course decide "ok, let's just do the left one for a while" and do only the left til I get bored, and then do the other again; now you could of course ask: But who is deciding that? And I can't tell you, of course! It just "comes to me", or these thoughts think themselves and I go with them.

Actually, having my thoughts now thinking about this, this is a bit like I was trying to steer the thoughts when I told you that I could try to interrupt thoughts; or avoid thoughts; or make them stutter or try to switch to different thoughts - now with the same line of question we could ask: But WHO OR WHAT decided to influence my train of thought, or to observe it, or whatever? Or too go to bed or not? To do ANYTHING AT ALL? AND I CAN'T TELL YOU! THERE'S NOTHING! JUST A LIGHT FEELING FIELD OF LIFE / EMPTINESS!

NO MATTER HOW MUCH CHRISTMAS SWEETS I ATE, THE FIELD OF THE OBSERVER ALWAYS FELT LIGHT AND FLUFFY! AND NO MATTER HOW TIRED I WAS! Interesting. Might want to observe more.

I also thought that I didn't practice enough, after I did this the first time; and then, when I went, it came to me, when I was going into the shower or doing something _else_ with my physical body / walking around and doing stuff - that in the same way my hands aren't directly controlled by me, these other actions, where I am sometimes SOOO distraught about whether I'm doing the right thing or not - are actually the same. And I could let go of it and I felt lighter when I just did what I went on to do.

Ok! So - this is it! Story of my hands on my table, and then lifting them.

I hope this is going somewhere... what do you think? :D

Thank you for the instructions and hope you have a good time

Daniel

[ManicMonk]

And a happy new year too of course! :)

[graceabounds]

Excellent :)

Things just seem to be happening out of thin air

And, is there any evidence that is has not always been this way?

that in the same way my hands aren't directly controlled by me, these other actions, where I am sometimes SOOO distraught about whether I'm doing the right thing or not - are actually the same. And I could let go of it and I felt lighter when I just did what I went on to do.

Yes, this is how to Look. Layers of apparent doing will shed. The lightness is a good indicator that the body isn’t carrying the lie of the self-delusion.

THE FIELD OF THE OBSERVER ALWAYS FELT LIGHT AND FLUFFY

Next, take a look… is the observer a distinct thing? Is it necessary? A noun? Or is there just observing happening to no one?

Much love,
Becca