Help me to enlighten

[Veganmamma]

Hello Liam

I hope you are well and thank you as Alwars for your help and kindness and time xx

I think you were right about the thoughts / emotional reactions to them….

quote]

What do you mean by "blame thoughts"? Are you blaming thoughts for taking "you" away from seeing? What is this "you" that can be prevented from seeing?
[/quote]

So I meant when I sometimes look and think ‘ahh this is it - I then blame thoughts for saying ‘this is it’. The ‘me’ is a label, a collection of ideas accumulated over the years to form an identity of me. Culture, conditioning and habit makes it seem real.

How does the present moment exist in DE? How would it "exist in DE as sounds, colours..."? Can you point to where the present moment begins and ends in DE?

In DE colours and textures are seen, thoughts happen and bodily sensations and movement so there is no ‘thing’ such as the present moment. No, cannot point to where it begins and ends.

What is “awareness”? Where is “awareness” in DE?

Awareness would be the same. Cannot point to it.

What is known for sure?

Colours, sounds, thoughts and sensations.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

I get this now! And needed to revisit the pointers as you said… so… the initial label thought ie ‘Apple , dog’ is DE but following thoughts from there are not DE- they are stories.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Colour and thought! About everything ! Everything is colour and thought! No, cannot find Apple in DE.

Enjoyed doing this again as I ‘saw’ it more clearly this time round. Practised so much …. Dog, blanket, cushion etc etc

However, is an apple actually known?

It is only known by our label word thought.

Look at the word, is that YOU?

No it isn’t me.

A

Are any
of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU?
Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?
Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?
Is the thought, "I exist" you?
Is the thought "I" you?

No! They are not me!

spoon for a while.
Then open your eyes … is there a spoon here, in real life?
So how did you see that there is no spoon?
What happened to the spoon?
Did it disappear or did it never exist?

Now open your eyes … is there a spoon here, in real life?
Are the image of the spoon and the experience of the spoon the same?
How does imagining and experiencing the same thing differ?

The real spoon - I was able to see, feel the weight, the texture and the coolness. The pretend one was just a thought image. So they were different in DE.

Is it an image or is it an actual entity?

The real spoon an actual entity that could not be denied based on appearance of colour, texture etc.

Last night in bed in my mind I saw a poodle running and also the letter ‘I’ and realised they are both just imagination! I wouldn’t think the poodle running as I was in bed was real so why would the letter I? It seemed so obvious! Am not sure if it has stuck this morning. I feel life flowing etc I have felt this for a little while since doing this work with you (less ‘me in control’). I still use the word I all the time but guess that’s usual. So, somethings happening I think ?!

Thank you, so so much again from the bottom of ‘my’ heart.

Nic x

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

I feel life flowing etc I have felt this for a little while since doing this work with you (less ‘me in control’). I still use the word I all the time but guess that’s usual. So, somethings happening I think ?!

Sounds great! I'm glad to be helpful and glad to hear those exercises were clarifying. No need to stop using the word "I." That would just sound strange to people around you. We still need to go about our conventional lives.

Here's an exercise about control, decisions, and choice.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
Don't go to thoughts. Examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like,
and each time inquire:
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought
MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand, the left or right hand, for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or
down?

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hello Liam

Just to say sorry for the late replies. My (trans :) son (also vegan) is home from uni so have been a bit busy. However I have been doing the task below and will get back to you soon. Thank you sooo much, lots of love,
Nic xxxxxxxx

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

It’s fine to take time off for your son’s visit.
Enjoy the holidays!

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hi Liam

I hope you are having a nice holiday time too and a very happy Christmas to you and yours xxx

Now I have done the ‘hand up / down’ thing many times now. There is no controller and the thoughts do not control it. Initially it was as though the movement was mocking thoughts - then I realised that was also thought! The decision point is really random - the hand just turns, or goes ‘wild!’ Flapping around! Or … does very little and stays there.

Thank you very much again for your time and support.

Lots of love,

Nic xx

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

Now I have done the ‘hand up / down’ thing many times now. There is no controller and the thoughts do not control it. Initially it was as though the movement was mocking thoughts - then I realised that was also thought! The decision point is really random - the hand just turns, or goes ‘wild!’ Flapping around! Or … does very little and stays there.

Good observations!

Here are a series of similar exercises:

1. Can you see a self making you leave the bed?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up come from? What makes the body
get up? Does a "you" or a thought command the body?
It's always interesting to see the difference between thought content and what really
happens.
“Can you see a self making the body leave the bed?”
2. On a count of 5, raise either your left or right arm, or not.
3. Can you choose to fall asleep? Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where
you choose to fall asleep?
4. Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next
thought that will arise?
5. Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction
etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?
6. Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise? Sit and look at
what is happening. Can you find any choice, a point where you willingly chose any emotion
that appeared in response to a stimulus?
7. Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is
made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?
8. Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on
focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on
breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you
control? What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

I hope you're continuing to enjoy the holidays and your son's visit. I'm going to be traveling from 26 December until 2 January. I'll be online during this time, but I might not be able to respond every day.

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hello Liam I want to say such a big huge THANK YOU. I am so grateful to you for your time and support and help, beyond grateful. I want to wish you and your family a very wonderful Christmas. Thank you for letting me know you’re going away for a bit. I will do my tasks - Please don’t pressure yourself to respond, only when you are able to. Have a lovely time away.
From the bottom of ‘my’ heart THANK YOU xxxxxx

[Kaiho]

Thank you, Nic! I wish you and your family a wonderful Christmas too!

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hi Liam

Don’t rush with your response as I know you’re taking some Al time away. Hope you are having a lovey time xx

1. Can you see a self making you leave the bed?

No. Seems pretty random - but very certain by ‘the body’. As if it knows exactly when is the right time. Even if my thoughts dilly dally they have little impact …

Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up come from? What makes the body
get up? Does a "you" or a thought command the body?

I have been watching this sort of thing like getting up off the settee, doing chores etc … going with the flow with it as there is no ‘me’ making the decisions…

“

Can you see a self making the body leave the bed?”

No, cannot see a self making the body leave the bed.

2. On a count of 5, raise either your left or right arm, or not.

Randomness, again, sometimes raised, sometimes did not. Each time the mind jumped in after with ‘I decided this, or that.

3. Can you choose to fall asleep? Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where
you choose to fall asleep?

No - happens when it is ready. When I focus to try to find the spot I drift off to ‘something else …’ (thoughts etc).

4. Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next
thought that will arise?

No. Initially think that I am and I’ll think …’we’ll go along this track…’ but they don’t follow through. They jump to a different thought or image.

5

. Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction
etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

This was interesting as again, the sensations were random.., like a cough or a tight feeling in solar plexus area. However I was able to intensify the feeling in solar plexus by focusing on it with thought. Then the thought would jump on to something else.

6.

Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise? Sit and look at
what is happening. Can you find any choice, a point where you willingly chose any emotion
that appeared in response to a stimulus?

This has also been interesting. Stressful things (for eg maybe a work situation) I have always thought need to be worked through (ie feel the full stress then talk about it and put a plan in place for eg). However, now I can see that it is still just thought… The reaction may not need to be as intense.

A trigger is often next door playing loud guitar. My heart will pound (sensation arise). This is automatic.

7. Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is
made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?

Did this a few times. Always thought this type of thing was my personality (labelled previously as ‘activist’) as the number would literally pop straight in as am reading the task - hardly before the sentence finished. So I didn’t know which number would pop in.

8. Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on
focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on
breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you
control? What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

Scatty, erratic, near impossible to keep attention on focusing. Maybe I often thought I had an ‘ADHD brain’. Maybe it’s just there is no me. Like a computer program, jumping from one thing to the next. Back to breathing could induce some sort of stability but even that would drift off into something else. No! Thinking wasn’t in control of attention! Would jump from one thing to the next, not stay focused!

Thank you sooo much for your time, your kindness and patience.

Lots of love,

Nic xx

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

Happy New Year to you and yours! Hope you're enjoying the holiday. Thanks for your patience while I'm traveling.

1. Can you see a self making you leave the bed?

No. Seems pretty random - but very certain by ‘the body’. As if it knows exactly when is the right time. Even if my thoughts dilly dally they have little impact …

Later you write, "No, cannot see a self making the body leave the bed" (which is clear seeing), but here it sounds like you're saying that ‘the body’ makes you leave the bed. This would mean that ‘the body’ is a doer or chooser. Look for the doer/chooser in the body. Where is it?

Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up come from? What makes the body get up? Does a "you" or a thought command the body?

I have been watching this sort of thing like getting up off the settee, doing chores etc … going with the flow with it as there is no ‘me’ making the decisions…

This shows clear seeing. So do most of your answers. I have questions about #5.

5. Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

This was interesting as again, the sensations were random.., like a cough or a tight feeling in solar plexus area. However I was able to intensify the feeling in solar plexus by focusing on it with thought. Then the thought would jump on to something else.

Can you truly intensify the feeling in the solar plexus by focusing on it with a thought? Or does the feeling intensify when it’s the object of attention? How is attention different from thought? Can a thought focus on anything? Or is a thought the object of attention?

8. Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focusing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control? What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

Scatty, erratic, near impossible to keep attention on focusing. Maybe I often thought I had an ‘ADHD brain’. Maybe it’s just there is no me. Like a computer program, jumping from one thing to the next. Back to breathing could induce some sort of stability but even that would drift off into something else. No! Thinking wasn’t in control of attention! Would jump from one thing to the next, not stay focused!

This is clear seeing. Did you find this exercise frustrating? I'm asking because we tend to want to control our attention (as well as many other things), and trying to control what we can't control causes a lot of stress. Your level of frustration can give us both a sense of how much these exercises are uprooting belief in doership and self.

Here's another doer/chooser exercise.
Although you see that there is no noticer/observer/witness, there may still be the feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’. That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’. So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing. Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.
Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black
space’).
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking
can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your
eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


After you finish this exercise what do you think would be most helpful: more questions and exercises dealing with (1) agency, doership, and choice, (2) the body, or (3) thought and thinking? We can examine all of these. The question is: where do you think the belief in self has the strongest hold? What would be most helpful right now?

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hello Liam

I hope all is well 🥰

Sorry for the delay. I have been practising though.

Look for the doer/chooser in the body. Where is it?

No doer / chooser to be found.

Can you truly intensify the feeling in the solar plexus by focusing on it with a thought? Or does the feeling intensify when it’s the object of attention? How is attention different from thought? Can a thought focus on anything? Or is a thought the object of attention?

This was interesting as it made me realise that attention and thought are different! So - again…. Thought has been taking the credit for things! Very interesting. It is attention that intensifies the object.

Did you find this exercise frustrating?

Yes and I get distracted easily. Wow this was interesting doing it again as was able to see more separately thoughts and attention. Previously would have thought they are the same. Thoughts dominate everything. Attention is more ‘crispy clear’.

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking
can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your
eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Can not turn seeing off. No self choosing. Means that thought, sensations, colour etc is there already and no chooser.

After you finish this exercise what do you think would be most helpful: more questions and exercises dealing with (1) agency, doership, and choice, (2) the body, or (3) thought and thinking? We can examine all of these. The question is: where do you think the belief in self has the strongest hold? What would be most helpful right now?

Body and thought and thinking please.

I am sure I have moments of seeing. At night in bed when it all seems free, wide and open. Then in the day I wonder how I can ever be free wide and open like that without having the body attachment. I know that’s thoughts. It seems so near yet so far away.

If ‘I’ am not doing it then what is and how aren’t they making it quick? I really appreciate your time and your help and I don’t want you to waste your time. I want to cross it for ‘us’ as well!

Thank you so much.

I really appreciate you thank you.

Love Nic xx

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

Can you truly intensify the feeling in the solar plexus by focusing on it with a thought? Or does the feeling intensify when it’s the object of attention? How is attention different from thought? Can a thought focus on anything? Or is a thought the object of attention?

This was interesting as it made me realise that attention and thought are different! So - again…. Thought has been taking the credit for things! Very interesting. It is attention that intensifies the object.

Did you find this exercise frustrating?

Yes and I get distracted easily. Wow this was interesting doing it again as was able to see more separately thoughts and attention. Previously would have thought they are the same. Thoughts dominate everything. Attention is more ‘crispy clear’.

Good. This is very important. Confusing thought with attention is one of the ways that we end up assuming thought is a self. Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything?

If you’re aware of something, it can’t be you. You are aware of a thought, so the thought can’t be you. Is this crystal clear? If it's not, please let me know, and we'll examine it more closely.

Is attention a self? Can you locate attention?

I am sure I have moments of seeing. At night in bed when it all seems free, wide and open. Then in the day I wonder how I can ever be free wide and open like that without having the body attachment. I know that’s thoughts. It seems so near yet so far away.

This is a story. During the day, when you find yourself wondering feel as free wide open as you do at night, you’re recalling the past and wondering about the future. The past and future are stories. Drop the stories and look for the self right now. Where is the self?

Also, during the day, when you find yourself comparing your present experience to memories from last night, it probably means that you’re resisting some physical or emotional pain in the present. Often, it’s easier to feel free, open and one with everything when we’re lying down because we don’t have to deal with as many bodily aches and pains, or unfinished tasks vying for our attention. We resist physical and emotional pain. We want it to go away. This creates an illusion of separation: me against something else (pain, in this case). By resisting, we’re also trying to control what we can’t control. This gives rise to stress and dissatisfaction. Can you open to the pain and lean into it instead of resisting it? Can you imagine that the pain is arising in a vast, open space? Does this change anything?

If ‘I’ am not doing it then what is and how aren’t they making it quick?

I’m not sure I understand this question. Are you asking, “If I’m not choosing, what is?” In previous replies to questions, you seemed to see clearly that there was no chooser. Are you asking why the process of seeing through self isn’t faster?

Here’s another exercise.
Say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?
Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?
Is the thought, "I exist" YOU?
Is the thought "I" YOU?
Those questions may have be too easy.
Now, speak the word “I” silently and be aware of any sensations or responses to this word. Are any
of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU?
Study these reactions closely. Throughout the day, notice what you are mistaking for the self. Is it a thought? A sensation? Pay special attention to the thoughts and sensations that feel like YOU, especially sensations in your head, throat, and chest. What do you notice?

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Hello Liam ☺️

Hope you’re having a lovely weekend.

Now - something funny has happened again! So the last two nights (always in bed!) I had sort of experiences where there was 100 per cent no self and I laughed again! I couldn’t find a self, couldn’t find the curtains I was looking at as that is a label etc. Thought's were there but not at the forefront they were distant / insignificant I suppose. Today (and yesterday) I still believe there is no self. It is a word! A thought. I am not looking at sensations or trying to figure out decision making as I know it is automatic. Now I know it’s not meant to be fantastical experience but this plainness makes me wonder if it is really it? So then the doubt thoughts come in but also I know they are thoughts. But I don’t have the ‘lightness’ of thoughts I had in these experiences as in they are still ‘like normal’.

Can thought experience thought? Can thought experience anything?

No! Thought cannot experience anything.

Is this crystal clear?

Yes I get that thoughts are not me.

Is attention a self? Can you locate attention

Attention is not a self! Cannot be located.

Drop the stories and look for the self right now. Where is the self?

THIS! this was super helpful! It was stories!! Even the ‘free wide and open part’ (I think !!) I can see body, see movement, no self (thoughts). Even ‘body’ is a label. I dropped the past and the future and looked right now! Just this.

Can you open to the pain and lean into it instead of resisting it? Can you imagine that the pain is arising in a vast, open space? Does this change anything?

You are right ! In the day there are things to do, taking our time and attention and I can get drawn into the negative thoughts / anxieties. I can then fight with them and not want them to be there, wonder why I’m so messed up or whatever. Now- since you messaged my thoughts have been ‘better’ so I have felt good really. I do wonder how this will fare when I encounter challenging or confrontational situations). I will certainly try it when needed. It did work with body discomfort previously. Thank you for the advice, I mean who would think of pushing it ‘out’. The other night my body sensations in bed were literally ‘blending’ with the um air! Energy ?

I’m not sure I understand this question. Are you asking, “If I’m not choosing, what is?” In previous replies to questions, you seemed to see clearly that there was no chooser. Are you asking why the process of seeing through self isn’t faster?

Yes! I was asking - if ‘I’ am not choosing things in life then what is ..? But I think it is just life! Not an ‘I’ or ‘me’ as an object or a wide open, HUGE, thing? Oh gosh it’s hard to put into words. I think I was looking for a ‘what the hell am I?’ Answer?! But I think the answer is a ‘life / no- thing!’.

Yes - no chooser I see this! In all things! Getting up, sitting down, talking, moving etc.

Yes ! I was asking why it isn’t quicker especially if something was pushing me to ‘get it’ (like life force..). As in, I am on this path, if there is no me, no chooser then whoever, whatever it is - how come they don’t make it quick! However, I realise again that that is stories and part of the chasing … which can block the seeing. It IS here, I just need to look, even focus, not listen to the thoughts.

Say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?
Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?
Is the thought, "I exist" YOU?
Is the thought "I" YOU?

No! Not me! Me is a word. When I did the same exercises it just sounded like noise.

Are any
of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU

?

No - just a noise.

Notice reactions- Is it a thought? A sensation? Pay special attention to the thoughts and sensations that feel like YOU, especially sensations in your head, throat, and chest. What do you notice?

Now I haven’t needed to do this this time..? As I get that ‘me’ is a word and sensations happen.

Liam I want to thank you so so so much for everything. Looking forward to hearing from you 🥰

Lots of love,

Nic xx

[Kaiho]

Hello Nic

It sounds like you’ve crossed the Gateless Gate! The “plainness” that you speak of really is it. It’s nothing fantastical.

I’m not sure I understand this question. Are you asking, “If I’m not choosing, what is?” In previous replies to questions, you seemed to see clearly that there was no chooser. Are you asking why the process of seeing through self isn’t faster?

Yes! I was asking - if ‘I’ am not choosing things in life then what is ..? But I think it is just life! Not an ‘I’ or ‘me’ as an object or a wide open, HUGE, thing? Oh gosh it’s hard to put into words. I think I was looking for a ‘what the hell am I?’ Answer?! But I think the answer is a ‘life / no- thing!’.

This is clear seeing! Can you see why the gate is called “gateless”?

I do wonder how this will fare when I encounter challenging or confrontational situations.

It's not unusual to wonder that, and can you see that this is another story about a future that does not exist? Can you see how such stories cause stress and interfere with savoring life?

There are a series of questions we ask when someone seems to have seen through the illusion of separate self. I'll read your responses and see if I have any followup questions. If I don't, I'll share your responses with a few other guides and see if they want to ask you any questions. Let me know when you're ready for these questions. No rush.

Love
Liam

[Veganmamma]

Lovely Liam! Hello!

Apologies for the delay - I have been waiting to see what happens! 😂 Truth is - nothing! but also something wonderful! Firstly want to thank you (and Elad) so so much for helping me… you may not ever know quite how much. I have had eating disorder for years it has gone! I realise I put far too much pressure on myself with what I ate (I just let life flow me to eat when / what I want now..) and the beating myself up after was thoughts I just now act like there’s not a problem (so there’s not!).

The letting life flow, relaxing into it has been going on over the months, so freeing! Stuff is getting done anyway ! You have helped me to manage horrible thoughts (or not ‘manage’ them but to see them for what they are! Bits of fluff!). Also to manage body discomforts.

From explaining about the apple and words and labelling and everything I feel like you held my hand throughout this journey - like a counsellor (but a much more awesome ‘lived ‘theory!’). You have been patient and revisited when I needed it and also told me when I needed it.

I literally thought you guys were in a constant state of bliss or focused enlightenment! But you told me no! And I realise that I don’t have to focus to ‘be that’ all the time either ! Even the forgetfulness about it all is okay like in daily life!

TBH I am so so grateful to you and Elad I want to hug you and give you all the money in the world. I have searched like so many of us over the YEARS ! And you have stopped my seeking!! Woo hoo!

Can you see why the gate is called “gateless”?

Yes! I have been staring at it all along! There was no gate ! But there sort of is ! It’s like a ‘belief gate’!

can you see that this is another story about a future that does not exist? Can you see how such stories cause stress and interfere with savoring life?

Yes! So … I still do this - but remember what it is…

Let me know when you're ready for these questions

Ready!

THANK YOU

So much love and gratitude

Nic xx