good place

[daisyrain]

"I wish so much I would see it"

-> that feels like truth, and it's interesting, but it feels so TRUEEE, what is truth?
AAAH, I almost feel like I want to cry out.

"I can't live without this"

This is another thought, and it's so dumb, it can't be true, but what IS THIS?
I'm losing my head here. If I'm just making noise, feel free to ignore this,

[graceabounds]

Here’s another angle on it:

We know what it is for a thought to arise. But what is it to believe a thought? What's going on there?
Normally speaking, belief is an attitude we have towards a thought, statement or proposition. It's not the thought itself, but something we think or feel about it. Schematically, it's like this:

1 (Thought "A") "I haven’t seen through this yet.”

2 (Thought "B") "I feel strongly that A is true."
In this case, the belief about thought "A" is actually thought "B."
This is ironic! When we believe a thought, it's just another thought, with maybe a touch of hope or fear (feelings) that it is true. Of course, the "believing" thought could take a different form. Instead of the mere statement that "I think A is true," the believing thought could be one or more other thoughts:

3 (Thought "C") "'When someone agrees with 'A', I feel a warm sense of pleasure."

4 (Thought "D") "When someone disagrees with 'A', I get hurt, angry or confused."

5 (Thought "E") ""Because of 'C' and 'D', I realize that I must really believe that "A" is true."

All of these are separate thoughts. Even the feelings and reactions mentioned in "C" and "D" are nothing more than other mental objects, other "thoughts" in a wider sense.
So the beliefs about thoughts are merely thoughts. They aren't really different from the thoughts themselves. They all arise and pass. It turns out that the believing thought and the believed thought are never present at the same time. They are separate and independent from each
other. So belief is a claim never borne out by direct experience.

[daisyrain]

So believe can always ever come after the thought and is itself a thought that went unnoticed?

Is this the same as the glue I mentioned?

[daisyrain]

oh, it's not a thought-stream, it's only one thought ever, right?!

OH, THOSE ARE GOOD NEWS!

[daisyrain]

it's not about tackling the thought you believe, that thought is "gone", when believing a though, there's actually just the thought appearing with the content like "I believed something" sprayed onto it. Is that it??
I'm a little excited for some reason, that's really odd :)

[graceabounds]

Yes
:)
What’s it like right now if there’s no belief in that illusion?

Is there any continuity at all outside of thought saying so?

[daisyrain]

So, I notice that thoughts refer to some continuity "all the time"

When looking for continuity, there is none, but I don't think the penny has dropped just yet.
Still, something feels very magical here

[daisyrain]

It seems to me, that the assumption of "there are many thoughts / I'm lost in a stream of thought, and it's mighty" creeps in still.
There is somewhat of a confusion in me, why this still happens

[daisyrain]

I wrote down my thoughts one after another and I notice that there seems to be a tendency to interpret something "special" or "true" or "fullfilling" or "magical" into individual thoughts, whereas, when looked at, those are just words. No fluff. No implicit or hidden relation to anything required

[graceabounds]

Very good.

there seems to be a tendency to interpret something "special" or "true" or "fullfilling" or "magical" into individual thoughts, whereas, when looked at, those are just words. No fluff. No implicit or hidden relation to anything required

Let’s look at that seeing relative to direct experience.

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise, otherwise google for a photo of one.

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known. What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Direct experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual or direct experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in direct experience.
This is what is meant by ‘looking in direct experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Color labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

[daisyrain]

This feels simple, actually. Nothing could be said about it. What makes this so hard?
Is it hard?
Thoughts. Still I wonder, I'm just not sure about what. I'll go forth and try to remain here.

This is direct, no continuity can be found.
Body relaxes.

[graceabounds]

Ok, here is something else to practice:

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.
2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.
3. Then wait for the next thought to come.
4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.
5. Then wait for the next thought to come.
6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.
This is how to look at thoughts:
Looking how they come and go, and
Observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

[daisyrain]

They'll you and good morning!:)

will do that!

Tonight I noticed, that worrying I'm not fit for direct experience keeps me from direct experience. Lots of worrying here honestly.

[daisyrain]

I noticed a thought that kept taps on previous thoughts. Like a chain.

[daisyrain]

its a but like somethings surfacing or shining through between thoughts