True. Back to this: how does it FEEL to see there's no separate "self?"100% the separate self is not real. There was alot of doubt and confusion from reading others' experiences. Some people seemed to have a dramatic experience and that wasn't what was being seen/experienced. It's really very simple. The I is just a story- a collection of thoughts
I still don't see what to look for with this. There are just sensations and thoughts rising and falling away just as there have always been. Anything beyond that is believing the content of thoughts.how does it FEEL to see there's no separate "self?"
I'm also confused with this "shift in perception." The expectations could get sticky here again. Am I supposed to physically see life differently? Is it just seeing life knowing that every time feelings and thoughts arise it's just a story, not reality?Have you had a shift in perception? Or is your conclusion intellectual, thinking?
Yes. Everyone is. If you read my first post I warned you this happened sometimes and told you to just keep trying.
I'm having problems accessing the forum the last couplecofcweeks
Yes. That's exactly what to look at.There are just sensations and thoughts rising and falling away
You'll know when it happens. It may be gradual and subtle but it is definitely not intellectual. It is experiential.I'm also confused with this "shift in perception."
Yes. I can't make that call for you, but it could very well be. If that is the case, well, you're looking for something you already have.had a few blissful weeks during which it felt like life was just unfolding as it should and there were no worries.
Yes, the trick is finding that thought. I guess I'm a little confused, because Byron Katie makes perfect sense with the experience I had. I wouldn't have thought to label it as 'no self' though. I would have just said believing untrue thoughts = suffering. The stories we are telling ourselves aren't reality and that's what hurts. The other hard thing with Katie goes back to expectations because her shift was so drastic and permanent. I guess I was expecting something bigger.The only thing that knocks us out of our sense of unity and no self is believing an untrue story or an untrue thought.
One of the best ways to clear those up is to do The Work of Byron Katie. www.thework.com
There's a tug in the direction of spending some time following Pernille's fetter guide. I am very grateful that you showed me how to check into the body for truth and I was able to see 'no self' from the perspective of not being able to find a me in direct experience. I feel like there was a small shift when I realized there was nothing but sensations, thoughts, and awareness. It has been useful as various feelings come up to be able to check in with myself and look at what is really happening (i.e. there's just an uncomfortable sensation, the rest is just thoughts). Even though I already had that shift a couple years ago, I didn't have the tools to help me return to it at that time. There was also a very brief shift with my experience of no me, no husband. They have just been such small shifts that I didn't realize that was the sort of thing I was looking for. I guess I was really hoping for that big, blissful shift that drastically changes things again. The feeling of I is still there for me most of the time even though I know I can check in any time and see that it's not really there.Ideally, you would want to get back to that truth now.
I've looked through some of the descriptions of the fetters on Pernille's website over the last couple of days. I feel like life has been pushing me through some of them naturally. It would be really helpful to have someone to talk through things and help me see where I am stuck. I can often recognize that I am upset because of a belief, but then struggle to see through it to the point that it can be let go. With Katie's work I often get to the point of "Wow, I'm an asshole!" on the turnaround, and get stuck there. I think I need to find a group that can help me see through those beliefs that pop up. It doesn't work to just say, "It's just thoughts, there's no me to suffer." The thoughts/suffering are very sticky, even though they've been seen through before.What do you want to do next?
That's why the first things I asked were about expectations. Only fears & expectations can prevent seeingI guess I was really hoping for that big, blissful shift that drastically changes things again.
Yes, I'll try them.Do you want to try those?
Whitney Jemmett. I appreciate the invite. The meeting with Luchana and Lubo seems to fit best with my schedule right now.What is your FB name?
No. There are only thoughts, sensations, awareness. That's all there ever has been.1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The self is the label the mind gives to all the sensory experiences felt by this body. It began early in childhood as preferences to certain experiences developed and language was learned. Everything experienced gets processed by the mind and labeled as me/other, good/bad, etc. It is the conglomerate of all these labels or beliefs that create the 'self.'2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
When a belief is let go there is a lightness to life. It doesn't feel like I have let go of every self thought right now. There are still reactive I thoughts to things that come up in life, but when a thought is seen through it is like a weight is lifted. Life feels less threatening, more okay.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
The suffering. The discrepancies between conditioned thought and reality. It started with a feeling of something being off. Ultimately it was when the suffering got so intense that something had to break.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
. Decision is what we call it when life goes according to our preference thoughts. Reality is life can go a completely different direction. This creates unease. For example, I can have a thought that I decided to eat Papa Murphy's for dinner. Two things can then happen. I eat Papa Murphy's or something comes up and I don't. The deciding thought had no actual impact on what happened.5) Describe decision & give examples from experience
Very similar. Intention is the belief that if there's a thought about reality being different, it could change reality. For example, if there is an intention thought that I will get up in the morning and exercise. Reality may or may actually happen that way.Describe intention & give examples from experience.
Same as intention and decision. Just a belief that I am in control. Reality is that life decides. A thought might say I am choosing to walk down the stairs. In reality, the body was moving before the thought ever arose.Describe free will & give examples from experience.
Again, just a thought. One might be presented with a "choice" between eating a carrot or cucumber. The impulse toward one or the other is there before the choice thought ever arises.Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Control is also an illusion created by the mind. For example, one might think they are controlling their environment to keep a child out of harm's way. Then the child gets cancer or a freak accident happens.Describe control & give examples from experience.
I don't know. God, source, the universe. Whatever you want to call it. Something other than a me.What makes things happen? How does it work?
I can't be responsible because I am an illusion. Even resistance or acceptance are ideas life just seems to lead to or not.What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Where is ‘awareness’ happening? Is it a thing? Is it knowable?“ There are only thoughts, sensations, awareness.”
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