I don't know what i am seeking - but a solution to all my problems

[pradeepsingh]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? What it seems to mean is that there is consistent person, who i attribute as myself. But it also means that there is no agency and there is no choice per se. And although i am familiar with this idea, it seems to be in contradiction to my experience. Where there does seems to be situations where i have to make a choice and confusion.

What are you looking for at LU? I am testing out a possibility, whereby i could live differently, with conviction. Such that i wouldn't feel myself to be stuck in the in world and figuring my way out like the world is against me and where i'd have to fetch for myself.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I expect to be challenged pragmatically, and where gaps and patterns in my thinking are identified, and evidence of why they are 'unture' could be demonstrated and stated with clarity. I am willing to be utterly and brutally honest about anything in my capacity, without trying to overcompensate.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Some bits of experience, but i haven't done anything fruitful, whatever this is supposed to mean. I am bad student perhaps.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 8

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

"8" is the least amount of willingness we will accept. It takes a lot of willingness to see.

it seems to be in contradiction to my experience

As you will hopefully see, it is only in contradiction to your *thinking*. When we look honestly, our experience supports it.

Please watch this:

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[pradeepsingh]

Hi Stacy, thank you for responding.

I am genuinely keen and am grateful that you are making space for guiding me.

I saw the video & have read the disclaimer and i would confirm to proceed.

To answer your questions first:

How will life change?

I think that I will have an understanding of myself and my relationship to the people, my environment and the world in general.

How will you change?

I will have an approach to life, that will have some sort of consistency and coherence. I will have some sort of conviction so also less confusion.

What will be different?

I the way I think everything will be different but and also the same, but the change will happen in the way it see it, how I see it, react and enact in it.

What is missing?

Primary a purpose, a direction, a meaning, clarity, and a lot of agency in my every day life due to social dependency, for money and validation.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You could call me Pradeep, my timzone is India, IST.

I have 1 question and a request:

Question
When you say

As you will hopefully see, it is only in contradiction to your *thinking*. When we look honestly, our experience supports it.

And also say

This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts.

Is thinking not part of experience then?

Request
I have read multiple times here, that i should be beware of considering this process as some sort of self-improvement. And although i understand what it means and why it being said. To be completely honest, i don't know in which way i could not think this as some sort of self improvement, even if it means to see thing clearly, or look at something honestly or something else which is rather be considered basic. This is an acknowledgement. But i will also try more deliberately to be in reminder of not considering this process to be of self-improvement. I you have any suggestions for this, please let me know.

Warmly,
Pradeep

Thank you agian.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Pradeep

You expectations are kind of reasonable, but be aware that this will not be a solution to all your problems. All of your problems are in your thinking and in a few posts from now you will see what I'm talking about. You will have a chance to practice it in experience.

Thinking is made up. It is not real. Self is made up in our thinking and has no real existence. Do the exercises and you will see what I mean.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Loving,

[pradeepsingh]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

I feel a sort of resistance, a sense of doubt and a seeming question of what has all my life been. I mean the idea of having no self ever, questions my agency throughout my life, and also, if it never was but i always felt like i did, that also means that if i feel this agency now, it might still not be there in truth. But i don't understand then, what does my life mean to me, who and why am I living it, carrying the responsibilities and finding ways for this person that i think i am. But, why do i then feel like myself, act like myself, and i weren't not only what i thought, but not be there at all, what should i be doing? But, since this question itself will not make sense, as there will be no 'i', I just simply don't know and don't understand, what any of it all means. I am sorry, i don't mean to be vague, but, in truth, such a conception, of having no self at all, just puts off any of the anchors of the life that i am living.

[Anastacia42]

That's okay. That question checks for fears. Fears & expectations are the only things keeping you from seeing the truth that there is no separate "self."

I suggest you download "Gateless Gatecrashers " from our Books here & read that for some examples.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[pradeepsingh]

I don't understand this:

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

how is thought and its content different?

[Anastacia42]

how is thought and its content different?

Thoughts arise. We can't deny that.

The content is made up, fictional, a lie if you will.

You had to be taught words, language. Your English is just gobbledygook to a Chinese person. Their Chinese is the same to you. Just nonsense sounds.

We are not born with words & language.

Can you see this?

Loving,

[pradeepsingh]

Can you see this?

I can see that we are not born with language and words. But, I am still don't have understand what it would mean to experience thought without content, or language and words. In case of emotions, looking at it as sensations is rather clear and makes sense to me, but in case of thought, it seems that thought are only words and language.

[Anastacia42]

would mean to experience thought without content,

The content is still there. We no longer believe it.

For example, did you see The Matrix?

https://youtu.be/Ph02o6K2aoo?si=BfSVQ8FOs0C_T6d4

Whether you understand or not, let's move on to some practices.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Are you still there? Ready to do the pointer I sent above?

Loving,