Is

[Ilsognatore]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That it's an inner journey towards dropping what I believe is me, my self. That the self is an illusion and that in reality all is one.

What are you looking for at LU?
A guide to help me accept my perceptions and my perceived limitis, to learn to love and be compassionate toward what I believe I am and even better, I'd love to realize there is absolutely no self whatsoever.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Hints that I cannot see or perceive, being pointed in the direction of truth, finding someone's who has more experience and can already see what I can't.
I expect them to teach me to live the experience with acceptance and compassion.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Very long... 20 years of seeking after 30 years of feeling lost I have realized our perceptions are not real, I have lived and experienced the oneness, the connectedness of all that is but I have also lost it again.
I am a student of a course in miracles, studied kabbalah for years, some Buddhism here and there and learned, practiced and taught mindfulness as part of my psychology practice but lost most of it as I fell back into full (almost) illusion some years ago.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

I have lived and experienced the oneness, the connectedness of all that is but I have also lost it again.

The best thing for "got it/lost it" is to question the lies/thoughts that are giving you the illusion again. Could be anything. For me it was, "she should love me like I love her." Uhhh? Really?

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

This is just a beginning.

For me, the best thing to look at that with is The Work of Byron Katie. Read "Loving What Is," and start questioning your thoughts.

Now, I can guide you here and help you to see again, but you are going to need a tool. Cognitive behavioral therapy can work, too. And other things. Headless Way. Etc.

You may also want to look into Perfectly Okay where you can associate with others who see as you do. That helps reinforce true seeing. So does guiding others .

https://perfectlyokay.org/

As far as we can tell, it is "Lather, rinse, repeat."

What would you like to do?

Loving,

[Ilsognatore]

Thank you for your reply.
I watched the videos, it's nice to know this happened to others and I had come to a similar conclusion lately.
I recognize I have set up my life to make sure I will fall back into the same, exact hamster wheel I was running on as a child.
I know this because despite all the work and awakening, I have not let go of my core belief "I do not deserve to be happy, I need to be punished for being alive".
I had done a Worksheet about this just a few weeks ago (I have been following Byron Katie for some time).
When I'm in a good state I can live with not being ok with the feeling, when I'm in the darkness I just fall back into the belief. I start fights to ensure the belief comes true, I self-sabotage myself to fail (and then deserve punishment), I am riddled by diseases (because I am the one who deserves punishment, not others...).
I KNOW all of it, but there is a far, a far away fear that slimes in every time I get close to allowing this belief to wash away.
I am missing to see something I hold onto. There's a fear to probably shed a part I still believe is "my self", the one self I know, the only one I believe in in those moments. And I can be able to make a lot of damages in a short amount of time.
Then I start over.
Yet I feel that this insight is close to the core. I am repeating my childhood trauma. I suppose if I repeat it it becomes "just the way it is" and I can give up.
That's NOT what I want, but it's what I believe when I look at existence from the ego side of things.

By the hint this is getting more and more intense and I get more and more triggered I can assume I'm getting close but it sure does not feel like it.

Yes, I let go of peace because I still believed I do not deserve to be happy, to be in peace, free. That is so true. Not that I deserve this, the false belief I have about it.
Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, regarding The Work of BK thoughts:

Look under these: "I do not deserve to be happy, I need to be punished for being alive".

I do not deserve to be happy because _________________________.

I need to be punished for being alive because __________________.

Then ask the 4 Questions and do Turn Arounds on whatever comes up.

I'm thrilled that you already know The Work, because I don't guide that in the forum. Too tedious.

Loving,

[Ilsognatore]

Thanks for this, the strongest resistance was in writing my willingness to feel lie it again, I believe I did not write it when I did it last time. Good practice. Thank you.
Have a very nice day,
Simona

I do not deserve to be happy because that’s just how it is
I know it’s not true but I still hold on to it
When I believe it’s true my behavior seeks confirmation, I do things to make it true or read experiences so to make my belief be true. That makes me miserable, feel guilty and shameful of something I don’t know where it comes from.
I would be free to just be, stop the fight,

I deserve to be happy because that’s just what I am;
It is true
When I believe I deserve to be happy I feel no needs, I am already all I can be in that moment. And I am free to simply experience.

I am willing to accept to feel like I don’t deserve to be happy because if it comes is to show me something I am not letting go.

I need to be punished for being alive because I came to ruin other people’s life and therefore need to make amends.
I know it’s not true
When I believe it I set everything I am aside to fulfill what I perceive are other people’s needs, regardless of how I feel.
It exhausts me and makes me feel fake and angry. And guilty for not doing my duty and not being a good enough person.
Once again, I would feel free to just be.

I deserve rewards for being alive. There are no amends for me to make, I did not ruin anyone’s life, we all have our own.
It sounds true with resistance.
When I believe it I feel I am allowed to be, to live, to actually be free from guilt. Free from guild feels wonderful, light, eternal and right.

I am willing to feel like I deserve punishment for being alive because if it were to occur again I will use it to see when I am hanging on to.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

Remember, thoughts let go of you. (not the other way round)

If there's still stress, you have more Work to do. How is it now?

Loving,

[Ilsognatore]

In this moment there is no stress. Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Very good. Let us continue with pointers,

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Ilsognatore]

I believe I'm clear about it

[Anastacia42]

Great. Here's some practice.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you cangb6FwZ6PlI4. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Ilsognatore]

In the last 24h I have focused my attention to:
Seeing my dog, simply= image/color
Seeing a tree, simply= image/color
Smelling rice, simply = smell
Smelling the cat litter, simply= smell
Smelling my dog, simply= smell
Smelling the air, simply= smell
Feeling a memory, simply= sensation
Feeling an itch, simply= sensation
Feeling pain, simpl= sensation
Feeling hungry, simply= sensation
Feeling the heat in the room, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Tasting the rice, simply= taste
Tasting the pill, simply= taste
Hearing the birds in the morning, simply= sound
Hearing the crickets at night, simply= sound
Hearing my dog snore, simply= hearing
Hearing the fork stirring the rice, simply = sound
Thought about eating the rice, simply = thought
Thought about loving the dog, simply= thought
Thoughts about the heatwave, simply= thought
Thoughts about not feeling well, simply= thought
Thoughts about the memory, simply= thought

Can I ask, I was singing and dancing, a mix of sensation and? Where does talking fall, and movement? Actions?
Thoughts precede all of it but do I classify speaking and movement?

Thanks and have a graceful day,
Simona

[Anastacia42]

Good examples, Simona.

Can I ask, I was singing and dancing, a mix of sensation and? Where does talking fall, and movement? Actions?
Thoughts precede all of it but do I classify speaking and movement?

Singing = Sensation, Sound
Dancing = Sensation
Talking = Sensation, Sound

Can you see these?

I should ask you to LOOK for this, but you asked. Yes, there would also be Thought Arising involved sometimes, but not always. Sometimes we just move and don't think about it, right?


u]Mind Labeling Experience[/u]

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[Ilsognatore]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

I would not use the term "truer" for either. When there is an "I" in fron the experience is brought inside the body. As uf the body was appropriating itself of the experience.
Without the "I" the experience just is, regardless of the body, regardless of labels.

2. What is here without labels?

Just the experience.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Yes they affect it. Labels "shrink" the experience according to my bias and attach a meaning to it depending on when/where etc...

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Yes. Without the "I" the body did not "grab" the experience and there were no sensations in it. Sounds, smells, sensations where "free" to just be.

Have a lovely being 😉

[Anastacia42]

Okay.

1. Without "I" the second one is truer. There's a pointer for that.

2. He's. Specifically Dite t Experience.

3. No. There is a pointer for that.

4. Kind of.. Let's look deeper.

First, this:

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Ilsognatore]

The lie is in the stomach contracting, I see the difference between interpretation and experience.