Hello!

[Sano]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no 'I' in reality. There is no separate distinct self from the world around us. There is no experiencer, just experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
To deepen my understanding at an embodied experiential level of 'no-self' and non-duality. I have accepted this conceptually and have experienced moments of deep realisation - glimpses - but the 'I' is still fighting to assert itself. On one level I realise and believe I am already awake but I just haven't fully embodied that experimentally.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Help clarifying and deepening my understanding of 'no-self' - I'm hoping the assistance of a guide can assist me in overcoming my own delusions, thoughts continue to assert themselves and remind me the mind-body has some way to go to fully grasp at an embodied level non-duality

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
For over 30 years I have been meditating and engaged with spiritual teaching - I began through Buddhism and then in recent years I have become more and more engaged with non-duality teachers (including Rupert Spira, Ekart Tolle, Ram Dass, Peter Brown, Angelo Dillulo, Pernille Damore, Kenneth Madden) - I have consumed a huge amount of content and all of these teachers have impacted me deeply and intuitively - but at this point I realise that I'm somewhat going in circles seeking more knowledge where what I really need is a more direct engagement with experience and a fuller realisation of no-self and non- duality

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

First this:

the 'I' is still fighting to assert itself.

This is completely impossible. "I" is a thought. a lie , possibly accompanied by a contraction in the body that in indicates you are lying.

We'll get there


My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Sano]

Hi Stacy - firstly I am so so sorry for the delayed response. I had been watching my email for an update when I should have been watching the forum. This is all new to me but I'll get the hang if it! I hope you are still available but if not no worries - I know there are many seeking guiding. I understand the rules, I have read the disclaimer and FAQ and I'll return here everyday from now on. My name is Seán and I'm based in Galway in Ireland so timezone is Irish standard time or GMT+1 right now.
So to your questions.

How will life change?

I don't expect life to change at all. Life is life. Whatever will be will be. I have lived enough to realise (at least conceptually) that I have no control ultimately over what will happen.

How will you change?

I will get over myself. OK I know conceptually there is no 'I' 'me' etc but on an embodied level I still have to fully realise that. Get out of my head. This head.

What will be different?

This body will realise fully that it has no control, that it is life, it will stop obsessing, reacting as if it did. I might sleep better. But I also understand that awakening doesn't mean eternal bliss etc - I hope it can enable me to accept what is, even when that might mean feeling shit from time to time!

What is missing?

Perspective. Embodied understanding. Yet I know conceptually there is nothing really missing. Everything I need is right here. I just wish I could fully accept that. But there is no 'I - it's all bullshit, this body feels so close to realising that but carries a lot of fear deep down, my greatest fear is falling. It's a recurring nightmare. I have a terrible fear of heights

Sorry all a bit jumbled above but hopefully it will give you some sense of where I am at. And sorry again for the delay. I promise to check back here everyday. And thank you SO much for your time and support. 🙏

[Anastacia42]

Hi Seán

Glad you looked at the forum. Yes, you should get an email.

Still available.

Your expectations are pretty reasonable. That's good. Otherwise, they can get in the way.

I'm also afraid of falling, but not heights if there's a railing or barrier. I suppose I should use this myself.

There is a Direct Looking process for fear.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=jHXuuyyVtp7c-1R2

And this one:

https://youtu.be/fSTT8nc8cvQ?si=Alcukpbi7SUlXpfi

Loving,

[Sano]

Hi Stacy - thank you for sharing these wonderful videos. I understand conceptually that there is no reason to fear and agree completely with Ilona that it is about allowing space for what is here right now, been grateful to it, whatever it is I feel. I know this. But I carry fear with me. It wakes me up at night. It fills my body whenever I am challenged or threatened. Unreasonable fear. Irrational. I'm pretty sure it goes back to an abusive childhood - but I don't want to focus on that as I know it only adds more to the sense of 'I' felt but know is not there. I will work with this and rewatch these videos again.
I'm really grateful that you are still there and available to guide. I'm sorry about my initial delayed response but will post daily from now on. 🙏 Seán.

[Anastacia42]

I understand conceptually

That's why the instructions are to LOOK. not think about it.


Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

Let me know how that goes.

Loving

[Anastacia42]

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Lov8ng

[Sano]

Hi Stacy - thank you for these pointings. They are really helpful. I did each sense and believe I realise the real difference between thinking I know or understand something and actually deeply realising through direct experience, in the sense you describe. I do come back as much as possible to direct experience, to the sounds, feelings, smells, sights, tastes in my immediate experience - unfortunately I get caught up in my head quite a bit and lose touch with this (I work as an academic so it comes with the job!). But I am aware and have had some extraordinarily vivid experiences when I have managed to maintain the direct contact with my immediate experience.
There is a lot of conditioning and historical baggage this body carries that drags me away from direct experience and fully awakening to what is and realising the absence of 'I' 'me' etc - like last night didn't sleep much. No obvious stressors to speak of but it's not uncommon and it's that 'monkey mind' running round in bizarre circles and this body giving it far more attention than it deserves.
Or maybe the ego knows its days are numbered.... hold on, there is no ego! Sorry - plenty more work to do here but thank you for your pointings and support on this journey. 🙏

[Anastacia42]

Okay.

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

This is just a beginning.

I highly recommend The Work of Byron Katie for defusing the untrue thoughts that are derailing your awareness of truth & Direct Experience.

There's also 10 Fetter work. Pernille Damore has a great set of YouTube videos on those.

So, I can guide you here & you can see if those other resources are helpful.

So, here's our first practice.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Sano]

Thanks Stacy - those videos are great and exactly what I'm experiencing in the back and forth between been here - and sucked into the black hole of thoughts! I'm familiar with Byron Katie's work but need to check it out more. At some level I do know that 99% of thoughts are absolute bullshit - I know this. But yet they still keep waking me up at night! It's like having a noisy neighbour playing loud music you really don't like in the middle of the night - except this one knows you better than anyone else and exactly how to get your attention.
Thanks for sharing the exercise- I'll do that tomorrow and report back tomorrow night. Should be an interesting list 🙂
Thanks as always SO much for your support. It's incredible to have someone to work with me on this journey. 🙏

[Anastacia42]

You're very welcome.

Looking forward to your next steps.

Loving,

[Sano]

Hi Stacy - sorry posting so late. Been travelling today so just arrived in the past hour and settling in. I've been doing the exercise throughout the day - including when driving. Eye opening experience - we complicate things SO much! Here's some notes from earlier today

Awakening

Feeling: pain, anxiety, fear
Seeing: dark clothes, yellow light shade on ceiling, red and white blankets, ginger cat, shadows, window, blue window blind
Hearing: traffic, birdsong, ringing in ears, breathing
Tasting: aftertaste of mouthwash, saliva
Mind: thinking, anxious thoughts about day ahead
Touching: blanket on body, fingers on phone typing, feel of glasses on face, fingers touching blanket, weight of body on bed, back touching bed, foot touching leg, 

Breakfast

Seeing: table, letter, milk carton, white table cloth, cap, glass, egg cup, egg, chair, tea towels, flowers, peanut butter, phone, bowl of fruit and cereal, nuts, hair dryer, shelf, clothes on drying horse, sitting room in distance
Hearing: traditional music on radio, hungry cat crying, sound of fridge next to me, tapping on phone
Sensing: pain in neck, some anxiety, some tiredness
Tasting: sweet fruit, food in mouth, crunchy,
Smell: coffee, rain outside, nose slightly stuff (hope I'm not getting a cold!)
Thoughts: thinking why I am doing this, things to do, feed the cat, news on radio, Palestine,

Office
Seeing: wooden shelves, black computers, wooden desk, grey chair, blank phone, books, wjite paper, mobile phone, white charger, black earphones, biege cabinet, black carpet, blue bottle, photo of daughter, cards, fruit
Hearing: water flowing, birdsong, traffic, movement upstairs, breathing, walking outside, Neck cracking, ringing in ears,
Feeling: tapping on phone, feet in shoes, bottom on chair, back against chair,
Smell: not sure, nose stuffed,
Thoughts: planning for day, writing to be done, prep for conference,
Taste; mouthwash, mint

I couldn't take notes while driving but did do the same exercise. Really liberating. Wouldn't it be great if life could be like this all the time! I lost track of it a lot too during the day as the mind took over but returned whenever I remembered. I'll keep doing this tomorrow and try and put reminders in whatever I'm at - there is a different quality to experience when I'm doing this, almost like a different more vibrant colour to things.

I meant to say yesterday also I have been doing Pernille Damone's fetters- have redone the first fetter 3 times already! Haven't dared go further yet as I'm still not confident I've seen beyond the 'i' or fully embodied that. Also did a great meditation from Angelo Dillulo on presence today which connected really well with the exercise.

So making progress. Thank you! 🙏

[Anastacia42]

Good practices.

Pretty good, but not *exactly * like the examples. I think maybe you did get the point.

But it looks like you picked one sense & found an example, rather than noticing the description & then naming the sense.

Can you see how that would be different?

Would you please rewrite these to match the example?

Loving,

[Sano]

Thanks Stacy - and sorry! I think I understand the difference and why it is really important (i've still got things upside down :) ) I have rewritten it again and continuing through the day and stripping back as much as possible to direct experience

Awakening

dark clothes, yellow light shade on ceiling, red and white blankets, ginger cat, shadows, window, blue window blind - image/colour

traffic, birdsong, ringing in ears, breathing - sound

aftertaste of mouthwash, saliva - Taste

anxious about day ahead - thought

blanket on body, fingers on phone typing, feel of glasses on face, fingers touching blanket, weight of body on bed, back touching bed, foot touching leg - sensation


Breakfast

table, letter, milk carton, white table cloth, cap, glass, egg cup, egg, chair, tea towels, flowers, peanut butter, phone, bowl of fruit and cereal, nuts, hair dryer, shelf, clothes on drying horse, sitting room in distance - image/colour

traditional music on radio, hungry cat crying, fridge next to me, tapping on phone - sound

pain in neck, some anxiety, some tiredness - sensation
sweet fruit, food in mouth, crunchy, - taste

coffee, rain outside, nose slightly stuff (hope I'm not getting a cold!) - smell

why I am doing this, things to do, feed the cat, news on radio, Palestine - thinking

Office
wooden shelves, black computers, wooden desk, grey chair, blank phone, books, wjite paper, mobile phone, white charger, black earphones, biege cabinet, black carpet, blue bottle, photo of daughter, cards, fruit - image/colour

water flowing, birdsong, traffic, movement upstairs, breathing, walking outside, Neck cracking, ringing in ears - sound

tapping on phone, feet in shoes, bottom on chair, back against chair - sensation

Stuffed nose, fresh air from window- smell

planning for day, writing to be done, prep for conference - thought

mouthwash, mint - taste


I think I'm going in the right direction but more practice needed to really appreciate this is where this body/mind needs to be.

Thank you! 🙏

[Anastacia42]

Much better.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving