Requesting a guide.

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian

Even if the bathed now seems tough, it soon passes. There's no accounting for why here is here and life is underway, an endless dynamic.

That something is missing or to be resolved, or there is more, is an integral part of the arbitrary stories that pass through and simply known.

Yes. True .

It sometimes seems that something worries away at these ideas about “not enough” or “more”. It seems important to at least recognise and accept the concern when it appears, even greet it and ask “now what is it that you really want?” And wait for an answer.

Love

Jon

[IainB]

Jon

It seems important to at least recognise and accept the concern when it appears, even greet it and ask “now what is it that you really want?

The character that appears would seem to be part and parcel with seeking and concern about loss or gain.

It might be said that the character is synonymous with seeking and concern.

Thought content operates to suggest, in particular around what is to be done.

The unchosen arbitrary nature of the character filled with sensations, disquiet and endless character plans isn't separate from the environment that appears. All this is known, including the morphing, needing character.

It is as though for anything to Be, to be known, the character is here too. There would seem to be no explanation for this, nor can anything 'be done' about it. There is no resolution, simply endless tumbling.

This offers no way out for the character. No exit route. If the character is in struggle, then a struggle will ensue. If the character is at peace, then serenity will be had, until it isn't.

with thanks

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian

Yes, the “character” is empty . Nevertheless there is still a restlessness. Did you try looking within, to ask it that question “what is it that you really want”?

Try it and remember to wait for an answer, whatever that may be.

Love

Jon

[IainB]

Jon

what is it that you really want”?

to be home

to be reconciled that what is here is simply what is meant to be hear, with no battle against it

to deeply love what is here, to deeply be the okayness that was always sought

with deep gratitude

[IainB]

Jon

I'm thinking...more answers to what is wanted?

I'm terrified of pain and death. To be resolved to the loss of death that isn't here but is understood to come later.

That the space of what I am (a looker seemingly looking out and a world encountered that may be explored as not separate) be a space/encounter of peace and serenity rather than a tumble cycle of elation and vexation.

That the vicious anger I encounter cannot simply be the self-acceptance and self-love lying beneath. This is seen as counterintuitive (as parts of being human can be) as without pain there may be nothing to drive the stepping into various resolutions of self-acceptance.

That my shameful embarrassing seeking that is but a proxy for my self loathing and leads to various encounters of bypassing twists in non-duality be confessed and resolved.

with thanks

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian,

That’s several responses. I’ll not try to address all of them now but just a couple. Please remember the others that I may forget and remind me later to return to them.

That the space of what I am (a looker seemingly looking out and a world encountered that may be explored as not separate) be a space/encounter of peace and serenity rather than a tumble cycle of elation and vexation.

You know by now (tell me if I’m wrong) that we only really point to no self, or no separation. I can’t assure you of bringing a state of permanent peace nor of a way to avoid some vexations.

I came across this today and thought of you here. Simone Weil once said:

“The sea is not less beautiful in our eyes because we know that sometimes ships are wrecked by it.”

I may prefer sparkling sunlight on water as a subject to paint but the sea is often churning and overcast. But wonderful paintings can be done of rough weather.

That my shameful embarrassing seeking that is but a proxy for my self loathing and leads to various encounters of bypassing twists in non-duality be confessed and resolved.

Listen Ian, I’m here to help. I don’t think your seeking is shameful at all. Like everything else, seeking happens, or it doesn’t. How much control is there over it?

Here’s another lovely quote I came across and again, it seems somehow appropriate:

Rilke wrote:

“Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves…” ;)


With love

Jon

[IainB]

Jon

How much control is there over it?

Life had here is wild, at times serene, reconciled, fearful, distraught. Unchosen, unbounded, both completely personal (mine/home-like staring god eye to eye) and impersonal (schismed/griefed-a complete loss). The absence of control is a thing however the being here flails about sometimes in all sorts of choice and control games. No control but a character is known part based on a fixationp rollercoaster of gain and loss, grabbing away, addicted to rolling waves of deficiency.

Thank you for the quotes. I keep them 'in mind' lots.

Upon waking remains a potent time for the striking clarity of the unchosenness of all this, the vibrant wholeness of this, the absence of a separate entity indulging and striking into life, or cowling in hurt.

This would seem to be completely forgotten at other times, and access to this knowing seem swept away as life feels more like a trap, or prison.

Always interesting.

with love

[IainB]

Jon

flails about sometimes in all sorts of [...] games [,] a character is known part based on a fixation rollercoaster of gain and loss, grabbing away

Ah okay I get you. There is the endless flail, but no separate character having, participating or the root of all that movement. Hence to seek change, or a more palatable encounter, be both impossible and misguidedly based upon holding that there is a separate person here.

Lots of character-isms, but no Character.

As with Rilke's love the questions...Live the questions now all that loving and living is part of life/this unfolding and not something that can be managed. No sorting of the person but a deeper reconciliation with the happening of the person than might initially be considered.

with thanks

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian

Could you be approaching all this, without realising it, too much through thought?

It’s the insight that thought is not actual or direct experience that counts. We, all of us, are encouraged and in many instances forced to live in our heads, thinking ABOUT everything, attempting to work things out on a mental level rather than being present to what’s already going on now regardless of what thought “says”.

The absence of control is a thing however the being here flails about sometimes in all sorts of choice and control games. No control but a character is known part based on a fixationp rollercoaster of gain and loss, grabbing away, addicted to rolling waves of deficiency.

Are you saying this is a bad thing? If so, what’s is wrong about it?

This would seem to be completely forgotten at other times, and access to this knowing seem swept away as life feels more like a trap, or prison.

So what? Yes. Of course. But , so what?

With love

Jon

[IainB]

Jon

Could you be approaching all this, without realising it, too much through thought?

I'm not sure what's going on here. I think a lot of it is simply discontent and fear around being me, and a wish for things to be other than they are or somehow reconciled.

all of us are encouraged [...] forced to live in our heads, thinking ABOUT everything...on a mental level rather than being present to what’s already going on now regardless of what thought “says”.

Yes, there can be a strong narrative taking place in thought. Thought can be dense and I don't know what it is. A lot of it is seemingly unpleasant. There can also be pauses where what is, is simply noticed. Or accompanied by surprise (why is there experience? why is there this character here? why is there a unique world known here?). Such surprise does not lead to answers, simply more surprise.

Are you saying this is a bad thing? If so, what’s is wrong about it?

When I'm completely absorbed in the character and story then there feels real deficiency, pain, loss, fear with no ability to mitigate this. The story is all there is with no way to pull back and see that it is a story.

So what? Yes. Of course. But , so what?

There is an expectation that there is something to be uncovered here that might lead to greater reconciliation with the life experience. That somehow there may be a trail of breadcrumbs back to something more awake than the slumber and endless buffeting of the story. I may be misguided here.

thanks

[IainB]

Jon

This would seem to be completely forgotten at other times, and access to this knowing seem swept away as life feels more like a trap, or prison.

So what? Yes. Of course. But, so what?

Ok, sure. In each moment it is either remembered that all is unchosen, arbitrary, all new and yet no change to see, and absent of a character to fight about (other than thoughts of such), or temporarily forgotten when swept away in thought, until remembered again.

Happy to wrap up here.

with love

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian

I’m happy to hear from you. I had wondered if my last post had put you off? Sometimes it’s hard to word responses without them seeming aimless in the one hand or dismissive in the other. Anyway, glad to hear from you.

We can wrap it up if you want but I felt that we are not finished yet. I’m happy to go on if you are?

Could you be approaching all this, without realising it, too much through thought?
I'm not sure what's going on here. I think a lot of it is simply discontent and fear around being me, and a wish for things to be other than they are or somehow reconciled.

I’m glad you saidd this. This has been my impression since we started talking. You’ve experienced periods of non-duality but I recognise what you’re talking about. Discontent and fear about being Ian and a wish for things to be other than they are or reconciled.

A little autobiography:

There had been times here, even since starting to see that there’s no self, when a certain kind of haunting took place. Perhaps there’s an undercurrent of anxiety , memory anticipation, or even old trauma behind it? But anyway the net result seemed to be an uneasiness circling around a lingering concept of “me” that seemed to need to keep going, along with thoughts about things that seemed “wrong”.

There was a need to investigate childhood trauma properly. It helped that during the two years when this was necessary I remained aware that there had never been a fixed self, just the illusion of one. What traumatic experiences had happened along the way had seemed to happen to a “me”, of course and had therefore compounded the learned notion of a victim or sufferer.


It was necessary to delve back into that in order to properly free or recognise something that had continued to feel stuck, uneasy, anxious, responsible and so on, until that moment. But it was entirely possible to embrace this and relax with life, otherwise it probably would have gone on for much longer as a haunting confusion.

You have spoken of working with trauma before. It was definitely this that seemed to untangle messed up strands here.

What is your experience along these lines?

With love

Jon

[IainB]

Jon

What is your experience along these lines? ...old trauma [...] in order to properly free or recognise [and so] embrace this and relax with life?

I've started a few responses here, but perhaps prepared too much, so perhaps I should be brief.

Exploring non-duality initially led to bypassing, but later empowered exploring trauma and what is here in terms of emotionally, somatically, how the narrative may shift through being shared, and so forth.

If the character is unchosen, arbitrary, and non-substantive then for me this empowers a dismantling of the character and a opening up and exploring of what this experience I might call 'my life' is, here. Live, both on and as the front line of here.

Most of my free time is split between reparenting work based upon twelve step fellowship, some radical peer counselling, other therapeutic work I set the frame for...I see LU as linked.

While it may be taboo in some non-duality places to 'seek to improve/change the self/character' I don't really see the above work as separate after long forays out into non-duality. This all seems to make sense and appeals.

with thanks

[JonathanR]

Hi Ian

While it may be taboo in some non-duality places to 'seek to improve/change the self/character' I don't really see the above work as separate after long forays out into non-duality. This all seems to make sense and appeals.

There is no self character; a projection of one maybe , like an image of a fictional character, like superman. But that’s just the point, seen as such, as a story about someone, there’s no entity to improve.

Improvement's can be made, but there’s no one to improve and no maker of improvements. Is this clear? There just seems to be.

Live

Jon

[IainB]

Jon

there’s no one to improve and no maker of improvements. Is this clear?

No, the knowing here is that there is a persona/character who while shifting, endures, and is like a common thread running through what is.

There's a strong appreciation that there is no time, only the world as it shows up here now, always shifting. I only need to look to know this.

At times the unchosen, arbitrary nature of what is, is clear, stark and surprising. At others the story is fully believed and acted out, but then this is relaxed from.

There is an appreciation that deficiency that can show up in combinations of 'negative' thoughts and feelings need not persist, and can be moulded and shifted.

I love how non-dual places encourage an entire stepping back to consider what is, entirely afresh, with thought disregarded. I've enjoyed working in this area for a time but it has yet to lead to a clear knowing about the person or character.

Of course this is at turns embarrassing, frustrating, disappointing and so forth and this too is a familiar thread.

with thanks