LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I absolutely understand the concept with my mind. I have been a practitioner of meditation and inquiry for many years. However, i haven't have any direct experience of no self.
I am suffering, feeling trapped within my mind, emotions and reactions.
I know that experiencing no self can't be undo. I know that it is the beginning of liberation.
What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a community that are passionate about waking up and awakened. I want to be in touch with experienced individuals that already went through the awakening process and know by experience how and where to look for the first no self realization. Also, experienced individuals that after the 1st realization continued to work towards full liberation.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Assistance and pointings from an experienced person that can guide me and offer support towards my inquiry into self realization and also that can help me to see through my resistance and thoughts that stand between me and my inability to realizing no self.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
20 years of meditation and "seeking". Most of my practices have been oriented towards lessening the suffering but never towards AWAKENING. The reason about why i never focused with so much intention towards self liberation is because i thought that was not possible to do this in my life time.
My teachings and studies always pointed towards many lives needed in order to attain liberation. Only 6 or so months ago i realized that this possibility of no-separate self and direct experience was possible for me in this life time.
I have been on fire ever since.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10
Seeing what is without reaction
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Hi Andrea, I'm Tyler and welcome to LU.
What do you think awakening is? Why do you want it (your idea of it)? How will it improve your life?
What else do you know or think you know for certain?
Now again, what is awakening? And does it exist? Look in your experience, what/where is awakening there? Isn't the only thing resembling awakening your idea about what awakening is? What is awakening apart from this idea? Look in your experience
What do you think awakening is? Why do you want it (your idea of it)? How will it improve your life?
How do you know this? Is this not just something you've heard or read? How can you know anything? What does it mean to know anything? If there is something you believe to be true, could you not just as easily have believed it to be false if you heard/read something else?I know that experiencing no self can't be undo. I know that it is the beginning of liberation.
What else do you know or think you know for certain?
Now again, what is awakening? And does it exist? Look in your experience, what/where is awakening there? Isn't the only thing resembling awakening your idea about what awakening is? What is awakening apart from this idea? Look in your experience
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Hello ty0,
I hope this is how the thread continues, I've never used this kind of platform.
First of all, thank you for picking up my request of support for wakening/liberation.
In response to your question, I don't know anything. I believe that in order to become part of this forum I had to respond several questions posted by the platform.
What i know for certain is that a part of me is suffering, I need support in processing the emotions through my body instead of getting them stuck in my head.
I have been a meditator for 15+ years, worked with a teacher 1o1 for 8 years and i have been in the spiritual path for over 20 years. In addition, I have been doing therapy for over 25 years.
At this time in my life, i am not interested in theories, mind knowledge or awakening experiences. I am interested in getting free from suffering which has been feeling more poignant since I increase my commitment to know and experience being free from the suffering of the ego.
Does the above resonates for your?
Thank you,
Andrea
I hope this is how the thread continues, I've never used this kind of platform.
First of all, thank you for picking up my request of support for wakening/liberation.
In response to your question, I don't know anything. I believe that in order to become part of this forum I had to respond several questions posted by the platform.
What i know for certain is that a part of me is suffering, I need support in processing the emotions through my body instead of getting them stuck in my head.
I have been a meditator for 15+ years, worked with a teacher 1o1 for 8 years and i have been in the spiritual path for over 20 years. In addition, I have been doing therapy for over 25 years.
At this time in my life, i am not interested in theories, mind knowledge or awakening experiences. I am interested in getting free from suffering which has been feeling more poignant since I increase my commitment to know and experience being free from the suffering of the ego.
Does the above resonates for your?
Thank you,
Andrea
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Sure
If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
And isn't this curious? Since you've increased your commitment, you've noticed suffering increase. You say you want to be free, but why are you not free? You are not free because you are suffering, but why are you suffering? You are suffering because you want to be free from suffering.I am interested in getting free from suffering which has been feeling more poignant since I increase my commitment to know and experience being free from the suffering of the ego.
Start with this. There is suffering, and you don't need to think of a solution or ask me for a solution. All this trying to come up with a solution is resistance, only adding to the suffering. So instead of focusing on how to be free from the suffering, go directly to the suffering. What is this thing you call "suffering"? What does it feel like? Is it a sensation? Where in the body do you feel "suffering"? Can you feel the suffering without trying to get rid of it? Can you simply be curious about it?What i know for certain is that a part of me is suffering, I need support in processing the emotions through my body instead of getting them stuck in my head.
If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Thank you ty0
Yes, I am fully following you.
Question: the triggers happen during work, the intensity of the emotion/energy arises during meetings mostly. In those moments, I can't focus on my body or be with the emotion without going into my head.
When i get home, i recall the emotion and feel it as much as possible, then i realize that i am a bit numb in my body.
Is there anything else you might suggest in terms of the moment when it happens and i am not fully available? or at home when i recall what happened?
I am looking into TRE modality to see if i can be more embodied.
Yes, I am fully following you.
Question: the triggers happen during work, the intensity of the emotion/energy arises during meetings mostly. In those moments, I can't focus on my body or be with the emotion without going into my head.
When i get home, i recall the emotion and feel it as much as possible, then i realize that i am a bit numb in my body.
Is there anything else you might suggest in terms of the moment when it happens and i am not fully available? or at home when i recall what happened?
I am looking into TRE modality to see if i can be more embodied.
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
What about at work immediately after meetings? Is there time after meetings when you don't have to interact with your colleagues? If not, what about immediately after work?
When you're at home and you recall what happened, all there is to do is feel what comes up, you don't have to induce more emotions than what comes up. When you feel intense emotions during meetings but you can't go to them in the moment (obviously because you have to deal with the content of the meeting), that's no issue at all. I don't consider what you've written "problems".
Now, back to immediate experience. I asked you this previously: If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
Can you describe this numbness? When you say "numb" in the body, do you mean that you're unable to feel into sensations because you are distracted by thought? Or do you mean that the sensations aren't as intense as you recall them to be at work, so you label it "numb"? If it's the latter, it's not numbness, it's just what is when it is.When i get home, i recall the emotion and feel it as much as possible, then i realize that i am a bit numb in my body.
When you're at home and you recall what happened, all there is to do is feel what comes up, you don't have to induce more emotions than what comes up. When you feel intense emotions during meetings but you can't go to them in the moment (obviously because you have to deal with the content of the meeting), that's no issue at all. I don't consider what you've written "problems".
Now, back to immediate experience. I asked you this previously: If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
What about at work immediately after meetings? Is there time after meetings when you don't have to interact with your colleagues? If not, what about immediately after work?
I share my office with several people. However, I can try doing that when is appropriate
Can you describe this numbness? When you say "numb" in the body, do you mean that you're unable to feel into sensations because you are distracted by thought? Or do you mean that the sensations aren't as intense as you recall them to be at work, so you label it "numb"? If it's the latter, it's not numbness, it's just what is when it is.
Correct, the latest. The intensity is not there
When you're at home and you recall what happened, all there is to do is feel what comes up, you don't have to induce more emotions than what comes up. When you feel intense emotions during meetings but you can't go to them in the moment (obviously because you have to deal with the content of the meeting), that's no issue at all. I don't consider what you've written "problems".
I experience my work situation as a big problem that i can't solve.
In general my emotions are very stable until I get trigger and the volcano starts bubbling. Work is the only place when it happens. Work is the place where most of my insecurities, anger, sadness, misery come up. Almost twice a week. I get home exhausted from the struggle with the emotions i experience
With true honesty, all that i do after work are activities to relax me from the stress i experience at work. I know that if i didn't have to work my suffering will still be there. I feel i have been escaping all my life from situations in order to avoid feeling the sadness, shame, fear etc.
Now, back to immediate experience. I asked you this previously: If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
I will work on this and report back. I know is pure energetics but i am so caught up in my thoughts.
I share my office with several people. However, I can try doing that when is appropriate
Can you describe this numbness? When you say "numb" in the body, do you mean that you're unable to feel into sensations because you are distracted by thought? Or do you mean that the sensations aren't as intense as you recall them to be at work, so you label it "numb"? If it's the latter, it's not numbness, it's just what is when it is.
Correct, the latest. The intensity is not there
When you're at home and you recall what happened, all there is to do is feel what comes up, you don't have to induce more emotions than what comes up. When you feel intense emotions during meetings but you can't go to them in the moment (obviously because you have to deal with the content of the meeting), that's no issue at all. I don't consider what you've written "problems".
I experience my work situation as a big problem that i can't solve.
In general my emotions are very stable until I get trigger and the volcano starts bubbling. Work is the only place when it happens. Work is the place where most of my insecurities, anger, sadness, misery come up. Almost twice a week. I get home exhausted from the struggle with the emotions i experience
With true honesty, all that i do after work are activities to relax me from the stress i experience at work. I know that if i didn't have to work my suffering will still be there. I feel i have been escaping all my life from situations in order to avoid feeling the sadness, shame, fear etc.
Now, back to immediate experience. I asked you this previously: If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
I will work on this and report back. I know is pure energetics but i am so caught up in my thoughts.
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Very well, no problem thereCorrect, the latest. The intensity is not there
What kind of activities? If you do activities to relax yourself from the stress at work, I assume you must be feeling this stress once you get home, as it warrants you needing to "relax" yourself from it. It sounds like there are feelings/sensations that are still present when you get home from work that you choose to distract yourself from with activities instead of feeling into. Maybe you wait for when you feel "okay" to start investigating, and you lose out on the opportunity because of this. Tell me if I'm wrong.With true honesty, all that i do after work are activities to relax me from the stress i experience at work. I know that if i didn't have to work my suffering will still be there. I feel i have been escaping all my life from situations in order to avoid feeling the sadness, shame, fear etc.
Do you distract yourself from it because you think you can't solve it?I experience my work situation as a big problem that i can't solve.
"Pure energetics" sounds pretty esoteric to me hahah, but no judgement there. Ask yourself how the thoughts makes you feelI will work on this and report back. I know is pure energetics but i am so caught up in my thoughts.
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Correct, the latest. The intensity is not there
Very well, no problem there
With true honesty, all that i do after work are activities to relax me from the stress i experience at work. I know that if i didn't have to work my suffering will still be there. I feel i have been escaping all my life from situations in order to avoid feeling the sadness, shame, fear etc.
What kind of activities? hiking, meditation, yoga
If you do activities to relax yourself from the stress at work, I assume you must be feeling this stress once you get home, as it warrants you needing to "relax" yourself from it. It sounds like there are feelings/sensations that are still present when you get home from work that you choose to distract yourself from with activities instead of feeling into. Maybe you wait for when you feel "okay" to start investigating, and you lose out on the opportunity because of this. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Correct! you aren't wrong. I get home kinda of overwhelmed, mentally exhausted and feeling defeated. I don't have much energy to go into the emotions because i had been "resisting or fighting them inside my head" for several hrs. So, i go to yoga or meditate or hike to re balance my self.
I experience my work situation as a big problem that i can't solve.
Do you distract yourself from it because you think you can't solve it? I don't think that i distract myself, i see it more than i take care of myself in a nurturing way
I will work on this and report back. I know is pure energetics but i am so caught up in my thoughts.
"Pure energetics" sounds pretty esoteric to me hahah, but no judgement there. Ask yourself how the thoughts makes you feel
Haha, i was associating the word energetics as hip, not esoteric. I meant energy, don't know how else to call it
Very well, no problem there
With true honesty, all that i do after work are activities to relax me from the stress i experience at work. I know that if i didn't have to work my suffering will still be there. I feel i have been escaping all my life from situations in order to avoid feeling the sadness, shame, fear etc.
What kind of activities? hiking, meditation, yoga
If you do activities to relax yourself from the stress at work, I assume you must be feeling this stress once you get home, as it warrants you needing to "relax" yourself from it. It sounds like there are feelings/sensations that are still present when you get home from work that you choose to distract yourself from with activities instead of feeling into. Maybe you wait for when you feel "okay" to start investigating, and you lose out on the opportunity because of this. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Correct! you aren't wrong. I get home kinda of overwhelmed, mentally exhausted and feeling defeated. I don't have much energy to go into the emotions because i had been "resisting or fighting them inside my head" for several hrs. So, i go to yoga or meditate or hike to re balance my self.
I experience my work situation as a big problem that i can't solve.
Do you distract yourself from it because you think you can't solve it? I don't think that i distract myself, i see it more than i take care of myself in a nurturing way
I will work on this and report back. I know is pure energetics but i am so caught up in my thoughts.
"Pure energetics" sounds pretty esoteric to me hahah, but no judgement there. Ask yourself how the thoughts makes you feel
Haha, i was associating the word energetics as hip, not esoteric. I meant energy, don't know how else to call it
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Energy too, do you mean sensations?Haha, i was associating the word energetics as hip, not esoteric. I meant energy, don't know how else to call it
Get back to me on this when you canNow, back to immediate experience. I asked you this previously: If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
I will work on this and report back. I know is pure energetics but i am so caught up in my thoughts.
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
thanks so much Tayler, I appreciate your pointingEnergy too, do you mean sensations? right, makes more sense :-)Haha, i was associating the word energetics as hip, not esoteric. I meant energy, don't know how else to call it
Get back to me on this when you canNow, back to immediate experience. I asked you this previously: If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
I will work on this and report back. I know is pure energetics but i am so caught up in my thoughts.
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Hi Tyler,
Not sure if I am following our conversation correctly on the platform. I just hit reply.
I have been feeling very peaceful lately. Trying to sense as much as I can. At work things have been very mellow and non reactive on my part.
I can definitely see more clearly how the thought precedes the emotion/feelings. This is something new I am paying atention to.
Also, a big part of me gave up to wanting to "wake up" so desperately. There's no point in using my striving mind.
The most prominent pattern in my realization process is that i need my meditation/ contemplation moments and non dual forums.
Not sure if I am following our conversation correctly on the platform. I just hit reply.
I have been feeling very peaceful lately. Trying to sense as much as I can. At work things have been very mellow and non reactive on my part.
I can definitely see more clearly how the thought precedes the emotion/feelings. This is something new I am paying atention to.
Also, a big part of me gave up to wanting to "wake up" so desperately. There's no point in using my striving mind.
The most prominent pattern in my realization process is that i need my meditation/ contemplation moments and non dual forums.
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
As clearly, honestly, and in-depth as possible, why did you write to me just now? What are you trying to get?
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
Tayler, your question kinda stopped me in my tracks. I feel a bit uneasy, and since i don't know you, not sure how to take your questions.
Below is how we left our last conversation and i was trying to following the thread without creating to much space between our interactions. Sort of to maintaining a pace
What i am trying to get? That's off putting.
Below is how we left our last conversation and i was trying to following the thread without creating to much space between our interactions. Sort of to maintaining a pace
So, i was reporting on my experience after sensing my body when strong emotions arised. Then, I was looking for maintaining a connection with you.If you can feel the suffering clearly as a sensation, what is it really? Before you call it "suffering", is it anything negative at all? Feel into the "suffering" for a while and describe it to me without labelling it "suffering".
What i am trying to get? That's off putting.
Re: Seeing what is without reaction
I see. Why is my question off putting? Why does it make you feel uneasy?
You have intent behind the things you do, don't you? There are certain outcomes you try to reach when you do certain things, no? When I say "trying to get" I don't mean you're trying to get something from me, but rather you're trying to reach a certain outcome by doing the things you do.
As you've said, you want to maintain a pace in our conversation and maintain and connection with me, this is an intention, there's nothing wrong with intentions, they are all innocent. So let's look deeper at your intentions
Sorry if I'm blunt or too straightforward, that's how I prefer to communicate in these spaces. Having to read between the lines really obscures things. I think you would prefer for us to know each other better, so I'm Tyler, I'm from Singapore, I like rock climbing and language-learning, among many other things. I used to meditate a lot but not much anymore. I know you like hiking and yoga, where are you from?
You have intent behind the things you do, don't you? There are certain outcomes you try to reach when you do certain things, no? When I say "trying to get" I don't mean you're trying to get something from me, but rather you're trying to reach a certain outcome by doing the things you do.
As you've said, you want to maintain a pace in our conversation and maintain and connection with me, this is an intention, there's nothing wrong with intentions, they are all innocent. So let's look deeper at your intentions
When you tell me these things, are you hoping for me to judge them as good progress or something like that? Are you looking for some kind of reassurance that you're moving in the right direction? Or are you simply reporting what has been happening recently? In the latter case, would you expect any reply or comment from me at all? Ask yourself, what is the intent behind writing to me?I have been feeling very peaceful lately. Trying to sense as much as I can. At work things have been very mellow and non reactive on my part.
I can definitely see more clearly how the thought precedes the emotion/feelings. This is something new I am paying atention to.
Also, a big part of me gave up to wanting to "wake up" so desperately. There's no point in using my striving mind.
What about this? Do you want me to tell you what I think about meditation, contemplation, and non dual forums? Would my opinion on them matter?The most prominent pattern in my realization process is that i need my meditation/ contemplation moments and non dual forums.
Sorry if I'm blunt or too straightforward, that's how I prefer to communicate in these spaces. Having to read between the lines really obscures things. I think you would prefer for us to know each other better, so I'm Tyler, I'm from Singapore, I like rock climbing and language-learning, among many other things. I used to meditate a lot but not much anymore. I know you like hiking and yoga, where are you from?