invitation to start now

[Nina]

Hy i am Nina married to Ray who has gone through the gate. Little about my life work as a therapist former nurse and social worker.#Recognise that it is important for me to drop the self and work on the now. It would be great to be liberated from the self and just live in the now recognising that there is no self just experience and thought.
It would be wonderful just to drop the complications of self and I.
Thank You Nina

[Elizabeth]

Goodness :-) Glad to meet both of you!

Nina, if you go back to main One on One page and hit *new topic* at the top of the thread headlines, just type that message in the new box that pops up and a guide will pick you up pretty soon. The forum is hard for first time forum users. If you have further difficulty, just click on my name where it is a colour, and send a private message and we will get it sorted.

Filipek,
Lots of stuff in that last post.

Touching on some fears and blocks from the past stories about Filipek.
Yes. Often these come up to be seen. We can be friendly, as these have tried to protect us. Just now, we see them and thank them for that protection. And see if they are needed right now, in reality. If not, we go on:

You were seeing that reality is not a state, just simply seeing what is. Yes!

I'm going to ask you to work a little more on the difference between A cup and a MY cup.
Is the same thing at work?
1/How would I know it was a YOUR cup if I was there? Tell me how that happens. Very specific!

Much love, Elizabeth

[filipek]

Hello!
thanks for the question it struck very deep and is still strinking :) previously i had no idea what observing thoughts meant. yesterday, there was a recognition that there was no self so noone controling thoughts. so i could just observe them. previously i could observe thoughts but there was an observer present. so i couldn't get the truth of it.

so how would you know if it was your cup or a cup? i have no idea. there is no such thing as something being someone's. i'm still working with that question but the rules of this forums are that i respond at least once i day. i have not yet had any sort of realisation, but just experiences. experiences however were from perspective of truth. there is just powerful identification with thoughts body and feelings. i do not feel that i got to the bottom of this so i keep searching. previously when working with questions i got stuck sooner or later. right now i feel as working with your grat question is still getting me deeper and deeper whenever i work with it.

so i got experiences of seeing trough illusion but im still going back to be indentified with things that just happen inside of what is. i still, most of the time, see what is as a separate self and the outside wrold. i do not consider my experience as final truth and my intention is to get to the bottom of wahtever this is what i am investigating ;)))))) so any advie would be appreciated, i still have success working with your question, but this forum is about regular responses so here i post ;)

hugs, kisses and a great load of appreciation to you Elizabeth :)

[Elizabeth]

Great, your energy and intensity is good to work with.

Yes, a lot of thoughts, not under control of a you, when you look. Of course, we have a lot of uncomfortable thoughts! Which if a you was in control, would not happen. Very good looking! Now...

Please look and see if the mind is a labeling machine.
Is MY a label on many thoughts? MY cup, MY partner, MY body, MY feelings.
How far reaching is MY?
Do other people, culture, or law support an I and a MY?
How big does this get?

Much love, Elizabeth

[filipek]

Is MY a label on many thoughts? MY cup, MY partner, MY body, MY feelings.

Yes, but on some areas it is very easy to switch freely between a MY or A, like i can transform my computer into me and to being A computer within seconds. With feelings, with the flow of thoughts, with the body - it's not that easy to transfer it into A and to ME. i sense that way out is to see that MY... and A ... is really one and the same thing. But i'm still working with grasping that.

How far reaching is MY?

it seems that it can become anything, so its reach is infinite

Do other people, culture, or law support an I and a MY?
How big does this get?

can you please rephrase this question, i'm not sure i get it.

[Elizabeth]

Hello, per our PM, we are both experiencing 'life events'. :-)

1/'i sense that way out is to see that MY... and A ... is really one and the same thing. But i'm still working with grasping that. '

How are they the same thing? Please explain.

If I say something is MINE, like a car, and you take it, what happens next? How are the language (labels) and the laws and the culture supporting a MY?

I hope it is going well. Love, E

[filipek]

Hey, it's ok, hope everything is doing well ;))

How are they the same thing? Please explain.

Well when i looked deeper i realized that there is literally no difference between MY and A. It's like those words do not mean anything at all. And yet, there is some huge misunderstanding - everyone, including me ;), get fooled and looks at life through this divided vision.

How are the language (labels) and the laws and the culture supporting a MY?

Whole language, laws and culter are based on the idea of MY. It's unimaginable how big this gets. I just don't understand why is it that we see the world through MY.

If I say something is MINE, like a car, and you take it, what happens next?

The car 'becomes' you. So if i hurt your car i hurt you. but it's not real! and for some reason everyone falls for it.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, exactly!
"for some reason everyone falls for it"
Why?
What is the difference between a word and reality?
Let's look at that.

Putting MY on the cup, does it change the cup in reality? A single molecule?

Please check if it is possible for the cup to exist without a you having a thought ABOUT the cup.

Are the thoughts reality? Or just pointing to, and labeling reality?

Check and see if any thought is real, this is important. Is ANY thought reality? or just pointing to reality?

Much love, E

[filipek]

yes, thoughts are really pointers to reality. and they are made up totally. there can be an object and there is infinite ways of thinking about this object. so where is the real object? maybe it's just the pure object without any labels?

so are thoughts reality? they are something. when there are a lot of stressed thoughts there is a tension in a body. and that's real.


i have no idea what thought is exactly hehe. objects exist without thoughts, thoughts are somehow descriptions of objects. but the description is not necessary for the object to be experienced.

[Elizabeth]

Yes, we call looking at something without the label in thought, direct looking. It is seen, then the thoughts start up, talking ABOUT it.
Now let's look at how those emotions really get hooked up in thoughts.
There is a nice innocent cup :-) and it's your favourite one. It breaks. It has a MY on it, with a big story, about how it was a gift and is special and very pretty. If something happens to an object with a MY on it, there is a story about it that affects the body, as you say. Stressed thoughts, perhaps.
Now, Look at how YOUR world has a My on it: MY family, MY country, MY past, MY thoughts and opinions.
How does this affect the experience of the world?
Love, E

[filipek]

It's the same as it is with MY favourite cup ;) when there is anything negative bout MY stuff it results in suffering. It's very interesting to look at thoughts without perspective of MY. but sometimes it's effortless and there are just thoughts flowing around. other times when there is desire, to see the thoughts without labels, to do it by control, i end up being lost in words. im still working of it tho. its really frustrating. it seems that the real deal, the thing im looking for is happening right under my nose but i just can't seem to grasp it :)

Thank your for your guidance so far, im very pleased with working with you :))))

[Elizabeth]

Let's look at the nature of thoughts...
1/Please look and see if you can find a place they originate from.
2/ Now please hold up a hand and pass it back and forth. Did a you choose to do that? Or did the movement happen and then was claimed in thought as a MY action?

Love, Elizabeth

[filipek]

1 - they come out of nowhere! well first i asked the question, i was pointed to "depths of me". so i started to search for those depths of me but i couldnt pin them down hehe. a feeling of them hiding somewhere.
2- it was claimed as MY action. What's more, when it is not claimed it feels more relaxed and natural, and the MY claim makes it tense. it's not that easy to adress this excersise to the whole body. there is some tension there, particulary around hips that appears extremely sticky, identified and foggy. it's hard to reach that place, to feel it. So when i try to do this excersise with whole body, MY claim is removed from many areas but what is left are some dark spots.

[Elizabeth]

Interesting. Let's try this exercise.

Close the eyes. Now take a finger, touch the table.
1/What is the sensation?
2/Now check...touch again, concentrate on the ACTUAL sensation in the ACTUAL finger...what is the sensation?
3/Now take the finger, eyes closed, touch the table and then the screen...what is the sensation? Different or the same? 4/What do you notice in the thoughts that come AFTER the sensation?

Only after answering the questions above, touch the table, the screen, and an arm. What can be observed?
Try touching the 'dark spots'.
What can this exercise show us?

Much love, Elizabeth

[filipek]

that every time experience is different, but it can be seen with the same clarity. the thing that makes it difficult to see some experiences is that some of them are very intensive, and they are key elements to the negative story about who i am. but there is no division actually between drinking cup of tea in the morning or witnessing some war massacre. however there must be something that makes us all fooled ! some primal boundry? i don't know anymore :D