Seeking guidance.

[JFK1974]

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Driving-

Seeing- different color cars, nature, buildings
Smelling- crisp air
Feeling- air on face, touch of steering wheel
Taste-
Hearing- engine, blower of vent, turn signal
Thought- thoughts of everything seeing, hearing etc.


Sitting outside

Seeing- differences in terrain
Smelling - clean air
Feeling- heat of sun, blowing of air
Taste- flavor of cough drop, texture
Hearing- birds, machinery from building
Thought- thoughts about greater weather

Is this right?

Really sat this morning trying to see what is here without thoughts and emotions, seeing the story about being anxious and thinking. The story of the suffering. It’s all a mind creation. I see it. The compulsive thinking. Just ready for grace.

[graceabounds]

Is this right?

It’s the reverse…
So
heat of sun, blowing of air, simply - seeing
birds, machinery from building, simply - hearing

A peeling away of the layers of interpretation coming from mind, an exercise of simply being present with what is. :)

Really sat this morning trying to see what is here without thoughts and emotions, seeing the story about being anxious and thinking. The story of the suffering. It’s all a mind creation. I see it. The compulsive thinking. Just ready for grace.

Great. You are seeing the structure of what has you seemingly ‘bound’. But notice: Who is waiting for grace? Is that not just another subtle story? Another move of the mind, waiting for something to arrive, for something to be achieved? What if there’s no grace coming, no next step? What if this is it, right now? What remains when even the waiting drops? What is effortlessly here? Now.

[JFK1974]

Great. You are seeing the structure of what has you seemingly ‘bound’. But notice: Who is waiting for grace? Is that not just another subtle story? Another move of the mind, waiting for something to arrive, for something to be achieved? What if there’s no grace coming, no next step? What if this is it, right now? What remains when even the waiting drops? What is effortlessly here? Now.

It is all a story playing in the mind. The constant repetitive thinking. It is all a story. So clear and also so ingrained that it sweeps you up and you go for a ride until you realize what happened.

Even that is a story. The story of John. John has compulsive thinking. John has insecurities and doubts. I can see that from a distance. The sensations are a part of the story. However, it does also come with discomfort. Or the story is very real feeling at times.

It feels like I am missing something. Or like you said, the waiting story. Right here, right now, is this. Seeing, thinking, hearing, thinking, etc.

[graceabounds]

Yes exactly.

Nothing missing except the ‘permission’ to go direct, fully into THIS.

‘I’ will always be missing something… searching for something, forever incomplete, in past and future, not here now.

Go direct. In this moment. Out of the drivers seat. Releasing the story. What does the idea of losing the entire story of John, erasing the entire story bring up?

It never existed! Was all a fabrication. John, Santa Claus, a unicorn. All in the imagination.

Drop in Now. What is missing?

[JFK1974]

Directly, nothing is missing.

It is just this. Me typing. At work. Normal day. Without the pain and suffering I guess.

Permission? How? How do I let life be life. Stop "efforting." Just be. It is a mind fantasy to just be. I guess another story.

I am not fearful of losing anything anymore. The suffering taught me that. What am I losing? Identification with so many things that have caused discomfort.

[graceabounds]

Just be. It is a mind fantasy to just be. I guess another story.

Yes. It already all just is.

There is no need to “just be.” You already are. Always have been. Even the seeking, even the resistance—it was all life happening, effortlessly.

I am not fearful of losing anything anymore. The suffering taught me that.

And yet notice there is still the pull to attach to the suffering! The one who has been through it!

What am I losing? Identification with so many things that have caused discomfort.

Exactly. And… be in the raw sensation of what is labeled ‘discomfort,’ welcoming it fully to be expressed as part of everything that is arising. Separate from the story about it or what it might mean or its cause or history of ‘you’. Simply, sensation.

[JFK1974]

There is no need to “just be.” You already are. Always have been. Even the seeking, even the resistance—it was all life happening, effortlessly.

I am seeing the effortless movement more.Or, better said, I am not doing the resistance, thinking, or reacting. Like right now, as I write, I feel the normal tension and resistance to what is. Part of the story I guess. Part of the conditioning. Similar to a trigger. Happens seemingly involuntarily. Thoughts about something bothersome. I don’t want to think them. They happen. I am catching the immediate resistance. The subtle wall of fear that arises.

And yet notice there is still the pull to attach to the suffering! The one who has been through it!

Yes, definitely a pull as said above. It’s felt. A contraction. Like my body shrinks and tightens. How is it dropped or let go of?

What am I losing? Identification with so many things that have caused discomfort.
Exactly. And… be in the raw sensation of what is labeled ‘discomfort,’ welcoming it fully to be expressed as part of everything that is arising. Separate from the story about it or what it might mean or its cause or history of ‘you’. Simply, sensation.

I feel I am at the tolerant instead of allowing phase. Less reaction. More observing it happen observing the contraction and resistance. Trying to watch the mechanism in play. But, certainly pulled into it often as well. Frustration is up and down. The story of the suffering is still on repeat.

Couple of questions-

1. Explain no self or no separate self. I just don’t get it beyond that when all is quiet there’s just this thing without a story. But what am I looking for or trying to find?

2. If all thoughts are conditioning. Not mine. Can’t the mind be reconditioned? The mind and body have learned these fears. Can’t they be unlearned? Because it wasn’t always the way it is now?

3. What is meant by illusion? The waking dream. I get the science of how our mind distort, changes, fills in pieces, etc. That we are only seeing a small part of reality due to these things.

Is the illusion that we aren’t seeing “true” reality because of thoughts persuading and directing us? That what just is, is and the illusion is our perceptions. It’s not an easy sell that we don’t exist. Is that the illusion that we think we do? And does it really matter. Pretty esoteric and philosophical and I read and listen to much:)

Thank you Becca! And are you in the U.S.? We seem to be on similar time frames with the timeliness of responses. Just curious.

[JFK1974]

And to be honest, the statement “you already are” is understood but not experienced directly. I already am free. I already am “just being.”

Right now it seems like wishful thinking. Probably because I am identified with thinking.

[graceabounds]

Yes, US based. I am in Boston currently.

Explain no self or no separate self. I just don’t get it beyond that when all is quiet there’s just this thing without a story. But what am I looking for or trying to find?

Very simple. Nothing to 'get' really.

There is no self at all. Or put another way: there is no separate self, never was, never will be.

Is it true? Until the obvious answer is yes, keep looking. You’re not trying to convince yourself of this. You’re trying to see it.

The big, obvious paradox that people get stuck in is this: “How can I see it if there is no me to see?”

The answer is very simple – no you is necessary for seeing to occur. Seeing is real. You are not. See that there is no you.

Try not to get lost in this – instead, just look, see that there is no you.

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:
• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that.

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Is this clear?

Looking at all your other questions, none of these are answerable in direct experience except perhaps this one:

The mind and body have learned these fears. Can’t they be unlearned?

So let's table all the rest of the trying and trying to figure it out from the mind, from the content of thought. This is not something that can be figured out. And go back to the body which is where this started. Not to 'unlearn' but to see if what is habituated is anything real to begin with RIGHT NOW.

Find a comfortable place to sit or lie.
Take in a few deep breaths to settle the dust and then relax for a bit.
Spend only 30 to 60 seconds on each component of this exercise.

Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit.
Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.
Now point your index finger to where John is located.
Touch the exact location of John.

Answer these questions:
Were you able to find and feel John in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified John (If any).

Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

As for the philosophy, set it aside. It won't help you here now.

[JFK1974]

Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit.
Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.
Now point your index finger to where John is located.
Touch the exact location of John.

Answer these questions:
Were you able to find and feel John in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified John (If any).

Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

I didn't feel a John in any direct way. Only a sense that there is a me behind the eyes. Like a presence. What is it exactly? I am not sure how to describe it. A quiet something. I didn't feel any sensations that would identify a John or a person.

Done with philosophy. Yes in direct experience there is only sensations in body parts. Not me.

When quiet or in the gap between thoughts I feel something (not to repeat myself). Without a thought just a something. Not a person. Not a John. Not even sure. Without prior reference or conditioning, it would appear as only senses. Seeing, hearing, etc.

[graceabounds]

Great.

When quiet or in the gap between thoughts I feel something (not to repeat myself). Without a thought just a something.

Now who is feeling something? Again staying in direct experience. Without thoughts, without categorizing. Is there a who or just sensations happening?

Only a sense that there is a me behind the eyes. Like a presence.

Look at whatever is in front of you. It is seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes) or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen?
Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?

[JFK1974]

Now who is feeling something? Again staying in direct experience. Without thoughts, without categorizing. Is there a who or just sensations happening?

Wow, think I see. There’s is only sensing. What appears as a sense of me, also seems like a a sensation. Might sound weird but that sense of me seems like the eyes seeing light or sensing sight with closed eyelids (when eyes closed). Then the mind comes in and interprets that feeling/sense. Behind that seems like a presence. Like behind or around. Not the body.

Look at whatever is in front of you. It is seen from the perspective of two windows (eyes) or is it like a windscreen view? Now zoom back in and try to find the thing that’s seeing. Is there seeing separate from what’s seen, or is there just what’s seen?
Is there any awareness separate from experience or is there just experience?

It is seen from an open view. Not two windows. Seeing is a function like breathing. Like above, the mind comes in and says “I’m seeing.”

Not sure about the last question. The obvious or first answer is if there wasn’t an experience, there wouldn’t be awareness. My conjecture is, awareness appears with experience like thought. But would be impossible to know. Wouldn’t it?

Even sleeping is experience with brain and body functions?

In direct experience there is something that knows. Knows seeing, hearing, etc. when quiet, it’s still there. Or not there. Or like an additional sense. Make sense. Like I don’t pay attention to sight when the eyes closed. So, the sense lies “dormant” temporarily.

Not really sure.

Side note/thought. You’ve heard of the “don’t think of a pink elephant” thing? I think (genius or perceptive as I am- sarcasm) I see some of the thoughts that continue to arise that are bothersome are because my resistance to them. I seen this thousands of times but kind of made sense today. The fear that arising with the thought, “why am I having this thought.” “What does it mean about me?” Has been perpetuated over and over because of the fear or dislike.

Goes back to, how do I dis identify from them? Not care?

[graceabounds]

Wow, think I see. There’s is only sensing. What appears as a sense of me, also seems like a a sensation.

Yes, you’re seeing it. Now is the time to throw caution to the wind and dirch the ‘think I see’ and ‘seems like.’ :)

The sense of “me” is just another sensation—like the feeling of touch or the experience of sight. It’s just happening. And then thought comes in and claims it: “This is me.” But is there actually a separate “me” apart from that labeling? Or just the raw, unfiltered experience?

Then the mind comes in and interprets that feeling/sense. Behind that seems like a presence. Like behind or around. Not the body.

Is this “presence” separate from the experience itself, or is that another subtle assumption? Can you find this presence apart from the knowing of sensations, sights, and sounds? Could it be just another layer of thought dressing up experience as something special?

Even sleeping is experience with brain and body functions?

Yes, even sleep is just more experiencing—just without the usual waking sensations and thoughts. But notice: the idea that “I was asleep” only appears upon waking. In deep sleep, was there any sense of a “me” experiencing sleep? Or is “I slept” just another thought arising now, claiming an experience after the fact?

And if there was no “me” in deep sleep, yet experience continued, what does that say about this supposed “I” that claims ownership of waking experience?

Side note/thought. You’ve heard of the “don’t think of a pink elephant” thing? I think (genius or perceptive as I am- sarcasm) I see some of the thoughts that continue to arise that are bothersome are because my resistance to them. I seen this thousands of times but kind of made sense today. The fear that arising with the thought, “why am I having this thought.” “What does it mean about me?” Has been perpetuated over and over because of the fear or dislike.

Yes exactly! The more you fight a thought, the more energy you feed it. But don’t try to “not care” as another strategy. Just see the mechanism in real-time: resistance keeps it alive. What happens if there is just a simple noticing of the thought, without any reaction at all? No trying to get rid of it, no trying to accept it—just raw noticing.

Right now, in this moment, is there any problem, or is there just the thought of a problem?

[JFK1974]

Yes, you’re seeing it. Now is the time to throw caution to the wind and dirch the ‘think I see’ and ‘seems like.’ :)

The sense of “me” is just another sensation—like the feeling of touch or the experience of sight. It’s just happening. And then thought comes in and claims it: “This is me.” But is there actually a separate “me” apart from that labeling? Or just the raw, unfiltered experience?

You know i closed my eyes for awhile an hour or so ago. The sense of me is sensation and the mind swooping in quickly and taking ownership. It's quick and needs continued investigating.

What do you mean "caution to the wind?" The mind hijacking direct experience?

Then the mind comes in and interprets that feeling/sense. Behind that seems like a presence. Like behind or around. Not the body.
Is this “presence” separate from the experience itself, or is that another subtle assumption? Can you find this presence apart from the knowing of sensations, sights, and sounds? Could it be just another layer of thought dressing up experience as something special?

The presence is the experience. I can't find it apart the experience and must be an assumption.

Even sleeping is experience with brain and body functions?
Yes, even sleep is just more experiencing—just without the usual waking sensations and thoughts. But notice: the idea that “I was asleep” only appears upon waking. In deep sleep, was there any sense of a “me” experiencing sleep? Or is “I slept” just another thought arising now, claiming an experience after the fact?

And if there was no “me” in deep sleep, yet experience continued, what does that say about this supposed “I” that claims ownership of waking experience?

What I don't get is how do I know I had a dream? Or are you saying that awareness is an experience of a dream as well? This point is confusing and probably not even relevant to the discussion.

I guess it means the same as waking- no me. Just another form of a dream? Mind spins, gets confused, and resists these statements.

Side note/thought. You’ve heard of the “don’t think of a pink elephant” thing? I think (genius or perceptive as I am- sarcasm) I see some of the thoughts that continue to arise that are bothersome are because my resistance to them. I seen this thousands of times but kind of made sense today. The fear that arising with the thought, “why am I having this thought.” “What does it mean about me?” Has been perpetuated over and over because of the fear or dislike.

Yes exactly! The more you fight a thought, the more energy you feed it. But don’t try to “not care” as another strategy. Just see the mechanism in real-time: resistance keeps it alive. What happens if there is just a simple noticing of the thought, without any reaction at all? No trying to get rid of it, no trying to accept it—just raw noticing

.

Everything happens. Resistance happens. Thought happens. Sensations arise. Fear and worry arise.

Right now, in this moment, is there any problem, or is there just the thought of a problem?

There are no problems without thoughts. That is seen pretty clearly until thought back in and refutes it.

[graceabounds]

The mind keeps looping back, trying to reclaim ground, trying to plant a flag and say, “Ah, but what about this?”—but every time you check, there’s nothing actually there!

Even now, the only thing creating a “problem” is thought saying: “Wait, but what about dreams? What about presence?”—as if any of these things are separate from raw experience itself. But check: do they exist apart from the thought about them? Is there ever a “me” apart from the story trying to grasp at certainty?

And that resistance you see—perfect. That’s the glue holding it all together. Thought + resistance = entanglement. But if resistance is just another arising, if it’s just another appearance in experience like the sound of a bird or the warmth of your hands—then what’s left to hold onto?