Having moments of liberation - wanting more!

[BlueRacoon]

Hi Henri!

It has been a long time - almost a year! I hope you are well! I am still working on my awareness.

I was diagnosed with cancer (Multiple Myeloma) in June and went through treatment. I'm done with the main treatment and will now be going on maintenance therapy. That experience definitely brought back a sense of selfhood (I could die... I have to make good choices to stay alive) and I have been working on dissipating that.

I did a retreat with Angelo in January, and am working through a recorded fetters retreat (embodiment) with Todd & Pernille. There are times of total clarity and a real sense of everything just being experience. Especially when I did the Angelo retreat and was meditating several hours a day. The fetters retreat is leaving me a little confused and twisted up (e.g. third fetter - do you just roll with what is, and does that include mind or not? Seems their Q&A advice suggests focusing on accepting all but mind which I find confusing).

At this point, I am struggling with the sense of personalness or uniqueness to experience (it is just experience, but I am the only one experiencing it so it is MY experience) and I can't seem to let go of that one. So that is sticky self-ing. Is that something you can help me with?

Thanks!

Katty

[Bluejay]

Hello Katty!

Sorry to hear about the cancer, but it sounds like the treatment is going well, which I am happy to hear :)

I'm currently not guiding, but if you want, I can ask if another guide is interested in working with you. Does that sound good to you?

[BlueRacoon]

That would be great - thank you! And yes, treatment has gone well. It's an incurable cancer, but I am hopeful to keep it away by managing my stress levels and eating healthfully!

[Bluejay]

I've sent a message to the guide's group. When someone is ready, they'll post in this thread. This could take anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks.

So that's it for me. It was fun working with you Katty, and I wish you the very best of health :)

[BlueRacoon]

Likewise! I'm so grateful for the time you've invested with me. Much appreciated. I wish you the best in your endeavors!

[Anastacia42]

Good morning Katty,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide if you would like.

I guide a bit differently than Henri (who is a perfectly good guide). We're going to stick pretty strictly to Direct Experience. I appreciate you are recovering from cancer. Sounds like that is going well. However, stories and thoughts have clearly kept you stuck in your head for a long time. No more of that.

I believe you saw this pointer back when you started with Henri. Please review it:

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


I will also insist that you reply to every question separately. Do not skip any. Do not summarize.

Quote the question per the instructions below and then write your reply. Do not summarize. The questions are designed to make you LOOK, not think. They work.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Quoting is required when we offer you the checkpoint questions. Other guides will read your answers and we want to make it easy for everyone who is volunteering their time. Thank you.

Much love,

[BlueRacoon]

However, stories and thoughts have clearly kept you stuck in your head for a long time. No more of that.

Yes! And sounds good to me.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

Agreed.

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I believe I am clear about this. I will generally refer to feeling as sensation. That is easier for me to keep straight as given my work (psychotherapist), I tend to think of feelings as what you refer to as emotions.

I will also insist that you reply to every question separately. Do not skip any. Do not summarize.

I can do that.

Thank you so much for taking me on and sorry for the slow reply. I somehow didn't see the site email until just now. I'm happy to get started (again)!

[Anastacia42]

Glad you saw the reply. Let's continue.

First, I'd like for you to listen to the Introduction in my DropBox pointers.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/k1ph01pt ... hjvjq&dl=0

Next, this:

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise you did on November 6, 2023.)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[BlueRacoon]

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

I listened to the introduction - thank you for that. Sounds like fun ;-) I’m ready to have my mind blown.

The lies for me that are easiest to find are lies of omission. Similar to “I am fine,” I am aware in the moment that when I give an answer, there is also a more complete answer that I choose not to share.

The sensation that comes is a heaviness in the center of the chest. Also, there is a heaviness in my face that is most evident in the eyes. If it’s a bigger withholding, it’s a full curling in of my torso/head.

I’ll be looking forward to the next step.

[Anastacia42]

Good noticing. Yes, heaviness. Pay attention to both sides of that for truth/yes and lie/no.

I read most, but not all of your thread so we might repeat something you've done. You can say so, but please just do it again.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

If this is difficult, we can do a couple of others first.

Remember, LOOK. FEEL. We're not at all interested in thoughts or their contents.

Loving,

[BlueRacoon]

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.

I had a nice fuji apple in the fridge so I used that.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

I've done this one before but it was good to do it again. Because I had a real apple, I could do this in full.

Taste - I was able to taste it and notice the distinct flavor of the fuji apple. I noticed that the taste comes from the juice that is released when chewing rather than the flesh of the apple. I licked the apple and there wasn't much flavor. Not sure I've paid that close of attention before. Interesting.

Color - I could see all of the complexities in the image - part that was green, part that was red/yellow. Browns. Various black/grey dots. I was aware of the mind automatically creating a 3D apple image/idea and aware of that as a construction - that I can't really see/know that.

Sensation - I sensed the bumpy, rounded texture of the skin (meaning: it has been in the fridge for awhile). I also noticed the "texture" when eating the apple, but realized that while there was pressure as part of chewing, it wasn't so much sensation as hearing the apple being eaten inside of my head that gave me the experience of what I labeled as texture.

Smell - I've never thought to deliberately smell an apple. And like wine, it doesn't smell like it tastes. Again, interesting.

Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

This took me a moment to separate anew - Apple is an idea, a label. It is a tool used to refer to an object to communicate, and not anything that actually exists. It is a pointer to something that exists. So no, I can't directly experience the thought/label.

I hope it's okay with you - I did the second "God" talk/meditation this morning. That was enjoyable. I had the same struggle as one of the members in your audience - "how is abuse God?" - but came to the sense that God (which I do think of as infinite consciousness versus the "benevolent(?)" God of my Catholic upbringing) is everything, even the things we humans don't like and consider wrong (Anger/violence). Just look at nature - storms, earthquakes, lions/tigers, rot... It just all is. I liked the guidance to come smoothly out of the practice (which I took as to stay in that place of awareness and acceptance).

[Anastacia42]

Answer simply. Maybe 10 words or less.

That was A LOT of thinking!

There was no instruction to describe taste or anything else. Do not add to the 2 simple choices offered. Just pick one. See?

1. Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or
2. only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

This is what is holding you back.

The second question is simply "yes" or " no." Nothing else.

However, is an apple actually known?

Yes or no. No more.

Please answer again.

Loving,

[BlueRacoon]

lol - that’s too easy!

1. Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or
2. only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There is only color, taste, sensation, smell and (lots of) thought!

However, is an apple actually known?

No, that’s a label/construct.

:-D

[BlueRacoon]

However, is an apple actually known?

No

I apparently could not help myself the first time!

[Anastacia42]

MUCH BETTER!

Now. How does it FEEL to SEE this?

Loving,