Ready to see

[derjohns]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand to mean that the LU team members will guide me to the process of seeing the being that has always been here but is not seen because of the habit of looking at and believing in the "I am this body-mind" story and all of the stories and things that go along with that.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for assistance in seeing through the illusion of false self, an experience, a realization of what is beyond theoretical or intellectual understanding. I am looking for assistance and guidance in having an experience of seeing and knowing.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I have an idea that the guided conversation will direct and help me to see and experience in ways that my ego-mind ordinarily wouldn't direct me to or allow me to. And that the guided conversation will keep me focused on doing that until enough awareness and understanding is accumulated for the "there is no separate self" realization to happen. But I don't really know what to expect.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I don't have much experience in self-inquiry. I studied A Course in Miracles for a while and more recently, The Way of Mastery material by the Shanti Christo foundation. But I am not as consistent with the practices as I would like to be.

About 15 years ago, there was a day were it occurred to me once that Derrick was an imaginary character and that there had only ever been the Life energy that had been labeled. And it made a lot of sense to me at the time and I forgot about it.

Last year I participated in three ayahuasca ceremonies and was shown that the body-mind has programs built into it that keep us identified with it, preoccupied with it, and so busy and distracted that we don't see the being that we actually are and that is always present. Some of the body-mind programs included: an identity program (I am this body-mind), a superiority-inferiority comparison program (keeps us comparing and judging) , desires and problems (to keep us busy chasing after things and trying to fix problems), among others. I was also shown that living in present moment, living from the heart, heart based emotions, and intuition (instead of from the head), were some of the keys to living as our natural being. And that what we are doesn't need to think but operates from intuition and knowing.

This really amped up the desire in me to experience what I am beyond my mind stories and programs. A few months later, I stumbled upon a copy of Liberation Unleashed in a used bookstore.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Magdalena]

Hello Derrick,


Welcome to Liberation Unleashed.
My name is Magdalena, and I’m happy to assist you.


In your Intro you say:

Last year I … was shown that the body-mind has programs built into it that keep us identified with it, preoccupied with it, and so busy and distracted that we don't see the being that we actually are and that is always present. Some of the body-mind programs included: an identity program (I am this body-mind), a superiority-inferiority comparison program (keeps us comparing and judging) , desires and problems (to keep us busy chasing after things and trying to fix problems), among others. I was also shown that living in present moment, living from the heart, heart based emotions, and intuition (instead of from the head), were some of the keys to living as our natural being. And that what we are doesn't need to think but operates from intuition and knowing.

Sounds like you’ve seen what there is to see.

What’s missing?

What are you REALLY after?

What effects do you expect your various practices to produce?

[derjohns]

Hi Magdalena, thank you for assisting me.

Sounds like you’ve seen what there is to see.

What was shown to me was under the influence of plant medicine, and in that state I could see a lot of things very clearly, but once I came back into normal everyday waking consciousness, I felt again almost fully identified as this separate body and mind again and what I saw just became an intellectual understanding.

What’s missing?

I don't really feel like anything is missing. The feeling is more like being hypnotized by a hypnotist and not being able to see the elephant in the room even though I know it's here - like there's some part of me that doesn't want me to see it, even though I know my being is always here.

What are you REALLY after?

Freedom, awareness, aliveness, an experience of seeing the being that I am, that has always been here. Right now, I am primarily focused on "I" thought stuff and have a secondary awareness of or fleeting periods of presence. I am after a reversal of that, so that I am primarily presence and being, and secondarily aware of mental activity.

What effects do you expect your various practices to produce?

I am expecting that the practices will lead at some point to awareness/presence/life expressing instead of habitual thought patterns being in the driver's seat.

I am grateful for your time and assistance. - Derrick

[Magdalena]

Hello Derrick,


That’s a classic loop — the belief that there is something to attain, and that this something will eventually replace thinking.

You’re still seeing yourself as a doer, taking actions to move toward a shift that will one day stabilise, are you? That’s the illusion.


Now, drop the theories. Drop the spiritual talk. Right now, without thinking, LOOK:

Where is this "you" that is expecting “presence” to take over?
Describe it. Not in ideas, not in concepts. Right now.
What do you actually find?


LOOK closely: not with analysis, not with effort – just direct, raw looking. Asking the questions and waiting a moment to see what comes up – no thinking rabbit holes.

Right now, is there actually a separate entity struggling with thought, or is there just thought about an entity struggling?

Is there an actual “driver” in the driver’s seat, or just the story of a driver?

Is there really “some part of me that doesn't want me to see it”? Or is it just another story?

Is there anything that can seriously be called “my being”? Or one more story?



Forget plant medicine, forget peak experiences, forget practices — what’s actually here when you stop chasing some future shift?

[derjohns]

Hi Magdalena, I am very happy and grateful for your guidance and pointing!

You’re still seeing yourself as a doer, taking actions to move toward a shift that will one day stabilise, are you? That’s the illusion.

Yes, that is how I am still seeing myself, and it feels like I am the doer, but now I also feel some doubt about whether I am the doer or not.

Now, drop the theories. Drop the spiritual talk. Right now, without thinking, LOOK:

Where is this "you" that is expecting “presence” to take over?
Describe it. Not in ideas, not in concepts. Right now.
What do you actually find?

When I stop thinking and ask this question and just LOOK, my mind gets quiet, almost empty, there is emptiness and confusion, and I see that that "me" expecting "presence" to take over, is a kind of jumble of stories.

Right now, is there actually a separate entity struggling with thought, or is there just thought about an entity struggling?

Yes, I feel like I am getting glimpses of this...there are just thoughts about an entity struggling.

Is there an actual “driver” in the driver’s seat, or just the story of a driver?

I don't know. I see stories of a driver...but it also feels like I am doing things..like I can do things...like I can decide to do something and then do it. But that may not be the case. I have observed times when the body did something and then the thought came afterwards that I did it. I feel confused/confusion.

Is there really “some part of me that doesn't want me to see it”? Or is it just another story?

Yes, it's another story.

Is there anything that can seriously be called “my being”? Or one more story?

I am not sure. I see that there are lots of stories. And I also feel like I am here.

Forget plant medicine, forget peak experiences, forget practices — what’s actually here when you stop chasing some future shift?

Sensations, breathing, sounds, confusion, calm, confusion, queasiness in my stomach area.

Thank you.
Derrick

[Magdalena]

Hello Derrick,


Confusion. Business. Calm. Breathing. Sounds. All appearing, disappearing— no problem. But tell me, without resorting to thought, who is confused?


You say, “I feel like I am here.” Where, exactly? Point to it. Not a thought, not an idea—where is this “I”?


You’ve already seen that thoughts say “I did this” after the body moves. So where’s the decider? Did you actually choose to be confused, or did confusion just show up?

Did YOU choose to sign up for the Liberation Unleashed forum?


And look at that last bit—when you stop chasing, what’s left? Sensations. Sounds. Movement. No seeker, no doer, no problem—until a thought comes in and claims it.


So, what happens if you stop looking for an answer and just sit in the rawness of this, without trying to land anywhere?

[derjohns]

Hi Magdalena,

My responses are below. Today (Friday) was busy for me but I will have more time tomorrow (Saturday) to dive deeper into what is coming up for me from looking at what you've written.

Confusion. Business. Calm. Breathing. Sounds. All appearing, disappearing— no problem. But tell me, without resorting to thought, who is confused?

I see that it's story "I" that is confused. (Then questions arise) Is that the only place "I" exists..in stories? Has it all just been stories overlaid onto events/experiencing?

You say, “I feel like I am here.” Where, exactly? Point to it. Not a thought, not an idea—where is this “I”?

I cannot find it or point to it. It appears to be associated with this body. I can find it in thought. But when I look for it, I experience emptiness and spaciousness and experiencing but no location.

You’ve already seen that thoughts say “I did this” after the body moves. So where’s the decider? Did you actually choose to be confused, or did confusion just show up?

Yes, you're right. There wasn't a decision to be confused, confusion just showed up.

Did YOU choose to sign up for the Liberation Unleashed forum?

I thought I did but I am not so sure anymore. I will need more time with this one to see what comes up. And I see that language is tricky and sticky. Because the language normally used revolves around an "I" as the doer.

...So, what happens if you stop looking for an answer and just sit in the rawness of this, without trying to land anywhere?

a feeling of lightness, openness, ease, some laughter arises, a clearer awareness of the environment, more feeling and more space between thoughts

Thank you, Madalena. - Derrick

[Magdalena]

Derrick,


You see that “I” only exists in stories. You see that confusion, actions, and decisions just show up. You even laugh when you stop looking for answers. So tell me:

What exactly is left of this “you” that was supposedly here all along?

Is there anything at all that needs more time to be seen, or is that just one more thought trying to keep the story alive?

And this **"I" that feels associated with the body—**is that something real, or just another overlay? When the **body moves, breath happens, sounds arise, sensations appear—**do you actually find a "someone" behind any of it?

Look, don’t think. Right now—is there a doer, or only doing?

[derjohns]

Hi Magdalena,

You see that “I” only exists in stories. You see that confusion, actions, and decisions just show up. You even laugh when you stop looking for answers.

Those experiences were seen and felt yesterday and it feels like the mind is still adjusting to them. When I stopped looking for an answer and just sat in the rawness of the moment, without trying to land anywhere, it felt good and almost like becoming more lucid in a dream.

So tell me:
What exactly is left of this “you” that was supposedly here all along?

Habitual thoughts, reactions and way of relating to others, things, and events, and my way of communicating. Also, memories/history, tendencies, preferences. I noticed today that when interacting with others, the story-"I" seems more substantial and there is a shift into more habitual ways of interacting - I fall back into character.

Is there anything at all that needs more time to be seen, or is that just one more thought trying to keep the story alive?

It feels like time to adjust is needed, but when I look.. it does seem to be another thought and a sensation in my stomach. Why does there seem to be resistance to change? (another thought-story about the previous thought and sensation in my stomach)

And this **"I" that feels associated with the body—**is that something real, or just another overlay?

It does seem to be a habitual story overlay with supportive feelings.

When the **body moves, breath happens, sounds arise, sensations appear—**do you actually find a "someone" behind any of it?

I can't find anyone, just the emptiness/spaciousness that I can't locate in any particular place other than "here."

Look, don’t think. Right now—is there a doer, or only doing?

I can't find a doer but things are happening.

I do appreciate your assistance and guidance! - Derrick

[Magdalena]

Hello Derrick,

You say the “I” flares up when interacting with others — so what exactly is happening there? Is there an actual shift back into a real self, or just thoughts claiming ownership of what’s unfolding?

Look at a conversation in real time. Words come, responses happen, reactions arise — who’s actually controlling any of it? Is there a “you” pulling the strings, or just patterns playing out?

And this "resistance to change": does anything actually resist, or is that just a thought labeling a sensation and spinning a story about it?

If there’s no doer, no central “I,” then right now, who or what is even writing this response?

[derjohns]

Hello Magdalena,

Thank you again for your assistance. I just want you to know that I appreciate your help.

You say the “I” flares up when interacting with others — so what exactly is happening there? Is there an actual shift back into a real self, or just thoughts claiming ownership of what’s unfolding?

Yes, I can see that it's thoughts claiming ownership and patterns taking over and this awareness is often sucked into and believing the stories and going along for the ride.

Words come, responses happen, reactions arise — who’s actually controlling any of it? Is there a “you” pulling the strings, or just patterns playing out?

I do see that patterns are playing out or words and responses and thoughts come up. There doesn't seem to be a controller, but it seems like intention can influence the direction of things at times.

And this "resistance to change": does anything actually resist, or is that just a thought labeling a sensation and spinning a story about it?

Yes, that is another story. I could see that just after I wrote it the first time.

If there’s no doer, no central “I,” then right now, who or what is even writing this response?

This is a tricky question now. I can see thought patterns handling most daily interactions, but sometimes response seem to come from another source. I can say this body that has been named Derrick is typing the responses into the computer but the source of these responses seems to be emptiness when I look. Thoughts seem to just rise up or appear. I cannot identify a who or a what as the source in this case.

Thank you,
Derrick

[Magdalena]

Hey Derrick,


You say that responses

seem to come from another source

Look closely: is there really a source, or is that just a habit of looking for one?


Do thoughts need a source? Does anything actually need a who or a what behind it? Or are you just seeing thoughts, sensations, and actions happening—without anything pulling the strings?


And about intention: does an "I" set an intention, or does intention just show up like everything else? When you say

intention can influence the direction of things

what exactly is happening?
Did "you" choose that intention, or is that another story appearing, claiming ownership?


Sit in this for a second. Right now—is there an actual entity anywhere, or just life happening, as it always has, without anyone running it?

I just want you to know that I appreciate your help.

You're most welcome. Yet there is no Magdalena doing anything here. ;)

[derjohns]

Hi Magdalena.

Today was again busy. I will have a little more time tomorrow to explore these further. Especially this first two questions about sources.

Look closely: is there really a source, or is that just a habit of looking for one?
Do thoughts need a source? Does anything actually need a who or a what behind it? Or are you just seeing thoughts, sensations, and actions happening—without anything pulling the strings?

There is a belief that there is a cause or source for everything....that things don't just happen for no reason. But if I am honest, I admit that I do not really know if either of those are true. They are beliefs.

And about intention: does an "I" set an intention, or does intention just show up like everything else? When you say
intention can influence the direction of things
what exactly is happening?
Did "you" choose that intention, or is that another story appearing, claiming ownership?

No "I" did not choose that intention, although the story said "I" did. Yes, the intention appeared and thoughts immediately claimed ownership. That seems to happen very quickly and quite often.

Sit in this for a second. Right now—is there an actual entity anywhere, or just life happening, as it always has, without anyone running it?

Yes, just life is happening and the mind is generating stories about it, including origin and ownership stories.

You're most welcome. Yet there is no Magdalena doing anything here. ;)

Hahaha. Wonderful!

I will have more time tomorrow. Thank you. - Derrick

[Magdalena]

Derrick,


You say you'll explore the "source" of thought tomorrow. But who is going to do that?


If thoughts just appear, without an owner, who or what is going to go searching?

[derjohns]

Hi Magdalena.

You say you'll explore the "source" of thought tomorrow. But who is going to do that?

Yes, there is a habitual thought of a doer that does things. And when I look for the doer and I find an emptiness in which sensations, feelings, thoughts, intentions, etc appear/come into awareness. And I also feel like that awareness or attention can be directed or shifted, from say thoughts and thinking to awareness of the body and breathing and sounds. Maybe there is no director or shifter but it seems as if awareness can be directed at times.

If thoughts just appear, without an owner, who or what is going to go searching?

The "I" story identity the believes that something is missing, something needs to be attained...a habitual thought that awareness believed.

Thank you. - Derrick