Guide Request

[welcomegrace]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have an understanding there is no self and am working through initial fetters. The ego has definitely dropped a bit after realising my identity was wrapped around goals/achievement/planning which I now realise are just thoughts. Another big realisation is that knowledge is also an illusion - big ego ID dropping.

What are you looking for at LU?
Support, guidance, pointing ... allowing me to see what I can't around reactions, opinions and attachments. A guide to answer questions I have around desire/ID/aversion. Ultimately I would like to drop the illusion of self as much as possible.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To realise that which I'm not aware of e.g. opinions, perspectives, attachments. A mirror for self enquiry. Guidance from someone who has already reached where I would like to be. A different perspective from the non-self.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
a few psychedelic experiences. 2 years of shadow work. working on 4th fetter with The Awakening Curriculum (having completed first 3). Several retreats - Angelo Dillulo and Vipassana.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[vinceschubert]

Hi Grace, vince here. Let's get to it...
You're seeing through the illusion of self, but notice—who is the one working through fetters? Who is looking to drop the illusion "as much as possible"? That impulse, that seeking, is itself the last grasp of the illusion.

Look now, in immediate experience—where is the one seeking? Where is the "I" that wants guidance? Not conceptually, not as an answer, but right now in direct experience: can you find the one who desires to be free?

Desire, identification, and aversion—all just movements, patterns, sensations, thoughts. They appear and vanish. But do they belong to anyone?

Check: without the thought "I want to drop the illusion," is there still an "I"? Before the thought arises, where are you? When the thought disappears, what remains?

This is not about progress. Progress assumes an entity making its way. Drop even that. What happens?

vince

[welcomegrace]

Hi Vince
Thanks for picking this up.

When you ask these questions I realise there is no self.

The session last night was great - i realised that my old conditioning kicks in.

Been working through 5th fetter this weekend.

Sitting in fear (i haven't felt this before) - heaviness in chest. Been here 24 hrs.

You're question last night kicked the fear up a notch 'how does it feel to be helpless?'.

I also realised that I was believing my thoughts all day: 'I need to save my business'. 'I'm solely responsible for my child'.

The fear of dropping that control is strong. Im grasping.

I guess I need to sit in fear and remove labels?
Thank you

[vinceschubert]

Good. Stay here. No escape.

Notice the sheer rawness of this fear—not the story, not the label "fear," but the physical sensation of it. That heaviness in the chest, the contraction—what is it, really? What is there before thought turns it into "fear"?

Drop every single explanation. "I'm responsible," "I need to save my business"—those are just noise, aren't they? Just more thoughts appearing and being believed. But the sensation itself—does it say anything?

Now, go deeper. Without trying to get rid of it, without trying to resolve it—what is it like to be completely consumed by this sensation?

Let yourself drown in it. If control is an illusion, if the belief in control is what fuels this grasping, then what happens when you completely let go? Not pretend to let go, not "watch it," but actually surrender to the absolute helplessness of it all?

No escape. No "working through it." No labels. No control. Just this.

vince

[welcomegrace]

Thank you.
Big emotional release today sitting with the fear. I comforted myself that there's nothing to be frightened of.

I realise noone is grasping.
Noone is crying.

Agitation is happening.
I can be in a body where there is tension or agitation.

There is sorrow for the ego, the struggle, the identity, the absurdity. Many soft tears as each new realisation drops.

Im sitting with hands in face.

All conceptual. I need to sleep, exhausted. Is this a label too?

Thanks Vince. I'll sit again after a nap.

[vinceschubert]

Yes. Even “exhaustion” is just sensation. A heaviness, a fogginess, a pull toward rest. Do those need a label?

Even the sorrow—who is sorrowing?
There’s no one there, just the unfolding of what was always inevitable. The ego didn’t die because it was never there.

And yet, look—the body sits, hands in face, something moves through it. But is it yours? Or is it just what’s happening?

Sleep will come when it comes. No need to call it “I need to sleep.” Just let the body do what it does. No resistance, no control, no one to rest—just resting happening.

Now, notice—without the thought “I need to sleep”, what remains?

vince

[welcomegrace]

Hi Vince, you're showing me how much of the 'i' is still here.

Since Sunday I've been noticing:

* I'm stressed
* I'm tired
* I'm busy

Noticing more and more ... you're comment of 'seeking is the final veil' ... caught my attention.
Is it just a matter of noticing more and more of the I in every thought and more and more reconition/reinforcement of the 'who's suffering? who's stressed' ... noone ...

thanks, Lorraine

[welcomegrace]

Im also noticing my responses ...

Im great
Im good
Im ok

Says who? Just thoughts. Not even based on feelings.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Lorraine,

Im great
Im good
Im ok

Says who? Just thoughts. Not even based on feelings.

Exactly. Just thoughts—floating, appearing, disappearing.

Not even tied to anything real. Just a habit, a reflex, a script running on its own.

And yet—who do they belong to? Who is the one they refer to?

Look now. Is there anyone there? Or just this—happening, unclaimed, free?

Noticing more and more ... you're comment of 'seeking is the final veil' ... caught my attention.
Is it just a matter of noticing more and more of the I in every thought and more and more reconition/reinforcement of the 'who's suffering? who's stressed' ... noone ...

No. Noticing is useful, but it’s not the end. If you stay in "noticing the I," it can become just another loop—another seeking.

What happens when you stop even that?

Who is the one noticing?

Who is the one reinforcing?

Isn't that just another layer of selfing? Another subtle belief in "someone" doing something?

See how sneaky it is? Even the recognition of "no one is suffering" still carries a faint assumption that someone is recognizing it. Drop that.

Right now—without any thought, without any process—what is left?

vince

[welcomegrace]

Morning Vince, when the self drops do we still have the same love and care for our children [fear].

Im now asking questions like if there is no self will I still love/be loved.

Thanks

[vinceschubert]

Hello Lorraine,

when the self drops do we still have the same love and care for our children [fear].

Im now asking questions like if there is no self will I still love/be loved.

Yes and yes.
Now get this (it's important) There is no self that drops. It never existed in the first place. What will drop is your IDEA that one existed, and consequently the emotional inhibitions that that idea stimulated.
That love will no longer be constrained by stories (filters), so it will be unconstrained.
Without filters it will be bigger than you can presently imagine.

much love here..

vince

[welcomegrace]

Hi Vince - thank you. Arghggh ... :)
Much appreciated.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Lorraine, let's keep looking...
Right now—without any thought, without any process—what is left? - look in experience for what can be found. No thoughts (at least, discount them)

with love

vince

[welcomegrace]

There's nothing but awareness.

[vinceschubert]

There's nothing but awareness.

What is awareness?

vince