Let's go!

[warissem]

Good morning Ceylan

Glad to know that all is going well for you.Just be knowingly aware, no effort is needed.

Let me know if you are ready for the final questions usually asked here.

I wish you the best

Nour

[Ceylan]

Hey Nour,

I'm not sure if I am ready for the final questions. I feel like support/guidance is still needed, though alot is shifting in a very subtle manner, there is doubt, which I know is just thought.

I have had clear shifts before under the influence of psychedelics like Mushrooms and Ayahuasca and the seeing was so crystal clear it was unmistakable. It doesn't feel clear in this way. And because of that I am not sure I am ready for the final questions.

I am finding things difficult in my relationship. I feel very distant and feel quite spacey and disassociated. Finding it hard to explain that alot is shifting, I can't find the words to explain, he knows little of these matters. I feel like the ways in which I experienced romance and attachments before isn't possible anymore. Of course they are still there but its different. I have alot of questions for you I think but for some reason there is a resistance to figuring out what those questions are and then to ask them. I think because I know that the questions are just thoughts haha so what to do?

Best wishes
Ceylan

[warissem]

Dear Ceylan

I'm not sure if I am ready for the final questions. I feel like support/guidance is still needed, though alot is shifting in a very subtle manner, there is doubt, which I know is just thought.

Good. doubt is due to expectations about seeing through the illusion of a separate self. In other words "what is going on here now" does not match with a story about going through the illusion. Just see the doubt as it is "a thought" and just know that there is awareness of it.

I have had clear shifts before under the influence of psychedelics like Mushrooms and Ayahuasca and the seeing was so crystal clear it was unmistakable. It doesn't feel clear in this way. And because of that I am not sure I am ready for the final questions.

Psychedelics and mushrooms trigger experiences which are coming and going. There is knowing (being aware) when there is an experience and there is knowing when the experience is gone. Being aware is unchanging when experience changes.
Are you expecting a special experience ? like in psychedelics. or any other special experience.
Notice that all experiences, good or bad, are arising and going and there is awareness of them. Experience can be a color, a sound, a smell, a taste, a sensation, a thought, a feeling, an emotion, a mind blowing one, a spiritual one, ...
Is there a separation line between experience (whatever it is) and being aware of it?

I am finding things difficult in my relationship. I feel very distant and feel quite spacey and disassociated. Finding it hard to explain that alot is shifting, I can't find the words to explain, he knows little of these matters. I feel like the ways in which I experienced romance and attachments before isn't possible anymore. Of course they are still there but its different. I have alot of questions for you I think but for some reason there is a resistance to figuring out what those questions are and then to ask them. I think because I know that the questions are just thoughts haha so what to do?

Don't worry about what's happening, it is part of the process. It is difficult to understand and explain because the mind cannot grasp reality. The old way of seeing is going away and the new perspective of seeing is settling.
During this period, just be knowingly aware of what is going on without trying to grasp at understanding. Don't look for answers through thoughts but sit with the uncertainty and be knowingly open to whatever arises.
Would you tell me how you deal with this in day to day life?
Yes questions are just thoughts but they could help to clarify things. Don't hesitate to ask any question and I will do my best to give you answers.

Best for you

Nour

[Ceylan]

Dear Nour,

Sorry for the very long reply, I got caught up in life ha

doubt is due to expectations about seeing through the illusion of a separate self.

Yes i can see this, and understand how the doubt is working.

Being aware is unchanging when experience changes.
Are you expecting a special experience ? like in psychedelics. or any other special experience.

Yes i guess there is an expectation for some kind of special experience, i mean it just an expectation that i would see clearer, like life would feel like i was in 4k very rich and vivd, every sound crisp and clear, and it still feels hazy. I thought there would be a clarity crystal clear. i can see that awareness precedes any of these states and that whatever the experience it is all happening within awareness. There is a frustration, because i have been suffering a little. things were tough with my partner and we recently broke up. I think i wanted to have more spaciousness around it, well i expected i would have but the storyline was very much alive and there was very little of me being knowingly aware. Extremely triggered and disturbed. a feeling of dissapointment, in myself for not being authentic in the relationship and being aware enough to be knowingly aware through it. I wanted and expected to feel calmer and wiser about it all. I guess thats all a part of my expectations. the spiritual ego and wanting to feel superior and buddah like haha

Is there a separation line between experience (whatever it is) and being aware of it?

no there isnt. and when i LOOK i can see but i have noticed there is a resistance to actually looking in every day life. it feels like effort and there a laziness or maybe a subconscious resistance. its weird.

During this period, just be knowingly aware of what is going on without trying to grasp at understanding. Don't look for answers through thoughts but sit with the uncertainty and be knowingly open to whatever arises.

I think that my relationship was not too supportive of this, there was alot of mind stuff and little time for myself and this work or rather, just being aware.
Im noticing that being knowingly aware feels a little like work ha, like i forgot to put my glasses on and i have to make a conscious effort to squint and see clearly, it feels effortful. and so in my days i find i 'don't have time'. There is a fear also i think that i will become so dispassionate with the people i care for and love, especially my child. i already feel a distance and lack of attachment i always thought id feel toward a child and i cant figure out if it is just spaciousness or just a knowingness of the way of things and less clinging than i had anticipated.

Would you tell me how you deal with this in day to day life?

I feel busy and like i dont have time. a resistance and where i wuold get super caught up in storylines before now i just dissassociate. because theres this strange feeling of nothing being real. and i dont know how to interact or respond to things. easily overwhelmed.

Yes questions are just thoughts but they could help to clarify things. Don't hesitate to ask any question and I will do my best to give you answers.

Yes thank you i will when they arise!

Best for you
Ceylan

[warissem]

Dear Ceylan

Glad to hear from you.

Yes, there are ups and down in daily life and seeing through the illusion of a separate self doesn't change anything in these matters. This is due to old habits, conditioning, tendencies which are still operating.

no there isnt. and when i LOOK i can see but i have noticed there is a resistance to actually looking in every day life. it feels like effort and there a laziness or maybe a subconscious resistance. its weird.

There is no effort as such, being aware is happening : can you be unaware?
is there a separation a sound and knowing (being aware) of it ?

I think that my relationship was not too supportive of this, there was alot of mind stuff and little time for myself and this work or rather, just being aware.
Im noticing that being knowingly aware feels a little like work ha, like i forgot to put my glasses on and i have to make a conscious effort to squint and see clearly, it feels effortful. and so in my days i find i 'don't have time'.

As I said above, no effort is needed to be aware : seeing is happening, hearing is happening, noticing thoughts is happening. Do the happenings need an effort to happen? Do they need a you, someone which has to make effort?
Being knowingly aware needs a reminding.

There is a fear also i think that i will become so dispassionate with the people i care for and love, especially my child. i already feel a distance and lack of attachment i always thought id feel toward a child and i cant figure out if it is just spaciousness or just a knowingness of the way of things and less clinging than i had anticipated.

There is nothing to be afraid of. Because there was never a separate self at the first place, no you managing life. Look at the birds an see how they take care of their young.

Would you tell me how you deal with this in day to day life?

Nothing changed. I go to walk as I used to, discuss with others about mundane topics, politics or whatever. Ordinary life.

I feel busy and like i dont have time. a resistance and where i wuold get super caught up in storylines before now i just dissassociate. because theres this strange feeling of nothing being real. and i dont know how to interact or respond to things. easily overwhelmed.

What does it feel like to say "I" or "me" in this moment? Can you find where this "I" is, or is it just a thought that comes and goes?

When you experience this "strange feeling of nothing being real," can you notice what is real right now in this very moment? What can you be sure of in this moment?

What happens when you let go of trying to control or understand everything that’s happening?

Who is it that is feeling overwhelmed? Can you find the one who is experiencing the overwhelm?

In the moments where you dissociate or feel detached, is there a part of you that is still aware of what’s happening?

When you look closely, do you find a fixed "self" underneath all the thoughts, emotions, and sensations, or do they come and go, without a solid "you" attached?

Waiting for your insights

[Ceylan]

Hey Nour

Being knowingly aware needs a reminding.

yes this is what I'm talking about I can see and understand awareness is there always. How can there be anything without.

There is nothing to be afraid of. Because there was never a separate self at the first place, no you managing life. Look at the birds an see how they take care of their young.

Yeah I suppose so. I think it is alot to do with the conditioning and ideas about emotional attachment and how there's maybe a belief that they are markers of real love and care. Which I know is not the case.

I have an expectation that there will be an obvious shift that they're will be alot less clinging and aversion and suffering. All of which I am still experiencing.

What does it feel like to say "I" or "me" in this moment? Can you find where this "I" is, or is it just a thought that comes and goes?

It's a thought that comes and goes. I know from our previous explorations that I cannot find it.

When you experience this "strange feeling of nothing being real," can you notice what is real right now in this very moment? What can you be sure of in this moment?

I guess maybe what I meant about nothing feeling real, I refer to my thoughts as the basis for understanding reality. So it's more the storylines and beliefs about life that feel not real. And I guess because they are not ha they are thoughts and beliefs. What's real right now is what is. What I am experiencing directly. The visual appearance of my phone as I type the sound of the birds outside.

What happens when you let go of trying to control or understand everything that’s happening?

Haha I experience peace. Nothing happens everything continues as it is. There just isn't the constant stream of anxious thoughts about it.

Who is it that is feeling overwhelmed? Can you find the one who is experiencing the overwhelm?

No I can't find the one but i guess it is just the experience of the thoughts.

In the moments where you dissociate or feel detached, is there a part of you that is still aware of what’s happening?

yes of course or I would know I was disassociating, tho the knowing awareness isn't always there and when it isn't I find it really affects my relationships and those around me. It's a byproduct of the overwhelming thoughts.

When you look closely, do you find a fixed "self" underneath all the thoughts, emotions, and sensations, or do they come and go, without a solid "you" attached?

no I do not find a fixed self thanks for the reminder and pointing. There is definitely a sense of a 'me' very strong still. Though I understand this will probably loosen with time as the conditioning unravels.

Thank you for your support
With gratitude
Ceylan

[warissem]

Dear Ceylan

I have an expectation that there will be an obvious shift that they're will be alot less clinging and aversion and suffering. All of which I am still experiencing.

Yes, it is normal to expect less clinging and suffering but the transformation often happens subtly and over time. The shifts you're expecting might not all happen in one go, but they’ll unfold gradually, and you’ll notice that you're no longer as affected by old habits or patterns. Be kind with yourself.

Observe the feelings of clinging, aversion and suffering as any object. Be curious, look at the sensations in the body instead of giving credit to the labels “clinging”, “aversion”, suffering”. How are they expressed in direct experience. Look gently at the sensations in the body and let these sensations come and go without any attachment to them. This does not happen to you. They are just sensations coming and going.

Haha I experience peace. Nothing happens everything continues as it is.

Yes, great to hear that.

There just isn't the constant stream of anxious thoughts about it.

As I said above, split apart the label “anxious” with what is arising as thoughts, body sensations, … and let me know how it is going.

no I do not find a fixed self thanks for the reminder and pointing. There is definitely a sense of a 'me' very strong still. Though I understand this will probably loosen with time as the conditioning unravels.

Here is an exercise about the sense of me, I wish it will help :

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:-

Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Nour

[Ceylan]

Dear Nour

Yes, it is normal to expect less clinging and suffering but the transformation often happens subtly and over time. The shifts you're expecting might not all happen in one go, but they’ll unfold gradually, and you’ll notice that you're no longer as affected by old habits or patterns. Be kind with yourself.

Yes, I mean there is certainly something unfolding. I am definitely a lot less affected by things, yes, I guess this is just an unrealistic expectation that in one moment all would drop away, haha though that would be nice.

Look gently at the sensations in the body and let these sensations come and go without any attachment to them. This does not happen to you. They are just sensations coming and going.

Yes i can see the tendency to label the sensation then not investigate the direct experience, along with the assumption that it is happening to me. I can see how this is reinforcing my sense of self and obscuring the clarity that is always available in every moment.

As I said above, split apart the label “anxious” with what is arising as thoughts, body sensations, … and let me know how it is going.

Well at this current moment i am navigating a particularly messy break up. I am feeling grossly misunderstood and it is creating alot of sensations and thoughts, i am exploring the reaction gap between the experience and the sense of self that is feeling the need to respond in some way either outwardly or by trying to grasp control internally through thoughts and rumination. it has allowed a space for me to directly experience all that is arising. and to focus on the experience and not the labels i have been assigning. Who is it that needs to react? what is it that i am reacting to other than the sensations or thoughts about what is arising?

I have not had time to sit with the exercise, I will do it this evening and share my findings, or lack of haha


Best wishes
Ceylan

[warissem]

Good evening

Yes, I mean there is certainly something unfolding. I am definitely a lot less affected by things, yes, I guess this is just an unrealistic expectation that in one moment all would drop away, haha though that would be nice.

Here is a video, I invite you to watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w

Well at this current moment i am navigating a particularly messy break up. I am feeling grossly misunderstood and it is creating alot of sensations and thoughts,

Take a distance from the experience and be knowingly aware in that very moment. Let thoughts and sensations be here, accept them as they are, see them as devotees. Give them light and let them go. Don't do any effort, be patient, open like a sky. Some clouds are light, others are heavy and dark, the sky is open, the clouds come and go.

i am exploring the reaction gap between the experience and the sense of self that is feeling the need to respond in some way either outwardly or by trying to grasp control internally through thoughts and rumination. it has allowed a space for me to directly experience all that is arising. and to focus on the experience and not the labels i have been assigning. Who is it that needs to react? what is it that i am reacting to other than the sensations or thoughts about what is arising?

Would write again what is above without using "I", "me", "my", "mine" and let me know about the arisings.

I have not had time to sit with the exercise, I will do it this evening and share my findings, or lack of haha

Take your time for it.

Waiting for your insights

[Ceylan]

Dear Nour,

Thank you for the video, it was very helpful as are some of Ilonas other videos!

Don't do any effort, be patient, open like a sky. Some clouds are light, others are heavy and dark, the sky is open, the clouds come and go.

This is something i have heard before and repeat to myself often, in the past few days a small shift has occoured. threre is more awareness of this.

im finding that being around and interacting closely with people who are heavily identified with self creates a kind of vortex that i get sucked into. it almost activates and reinforces the self concept and makes it more challenging to stay knowingly aware. i feel i want to isolate a little, have some time and space to be with 'my self' so i can really actually explore it without lots of people or things reinforcing the idea of it. its difficult to have tome and space alone right now as i am living with my mum while my house is being built and i am a mother to a two year old.

Would write again what is above without using "I", "me", "my", "mine" and let me know about the arisings.

Haha without the I me and mine there isnt much of anything being said.

frustration is here, impatience is here, doubt is here, deisre and wishing is here.

tired of searching, when will this seeking exhaust itself

Thank you for your patience and care
Ceylan

[warissem]

Good morning

frustration is here, impatience is here, doubt is here, desire and wishing is here.

tired of searching, when will this seeking exhaust itself

I hear you. You are waiting for something to happen, a shift or whatever, to end the seeking, to arrive at a destination. The key is to see that this "you" which feels frustrated, impatient, doubting, seeking, ... does not exist, has never been here. There are appearances of the five senses field, there are thoughts, feelings and emotions.
Instead of trying too hard to get it, I invite you to take a break from seeking, just let life flow. Be aware and open even for frustration, doubt, desire, wishing, pull to seek, ... Observe these feelings come and go. Let it be for a week. Let me know how it goes on.

Best for you

[Ceylan]

Hey Nour,

I am back, after a break.

These two weeks have been quite intense, emotionally.

I am feeling guilty on you for taking so long to SEE, and for my inconsistency in replying promptly.

Not sure where to start or what to say right now haha I'm still quite sick of 'my' mind and the constant thoughts haha

[warissem]

Good evening

I really appreciate your honesty in sharing that you have gone through a deep emotional process over the past couple of weeks.
The guilt you're feeling is just another layer of the mind, trying to hold onto the idea of 'you' as separate. In reality, there's no need to apologize for any of this.
The mind is always going to try to pull us into the stories of 'self,' but you’re already noticing its tricks, which is a huge step. There’s no rush or perfect way to be in this process. The fact that you're even noticing how you feel about your thoughts is the beginning of seeing through the illusion. You're already where you need to be. Take your time, and be gentle with yourself.

Here is an exercise, I wish it will help :

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.

When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Nour

[Ceylan]

Dear Nour,

Thank you for your grace. immense gratitude.

The guilt you're feeling is just another layer of the mind, trying to hold onto the idea of 'you' as separate. In reality, there's no need to apologize for any of this.

Yes, i can see this. What is being experienced now is alot of fear. great resistance is there. a contractive feeling. A great deal of suffering has been experienced in the emotion of guilt. a sticky one to let go of ha who am 'i' without guilt ha. haha I ceases to exist.
there is a great fear of awakening. i can feel how close it is. and still ther is this hook trying to hang on. i feel like i am going to die ha there is resistance. like do i actually want to do this haha. a fear of death. is the only was to describe it.

You're already where you need to be.

Thank you for the reminder.
thoughts are alot, they always take centre stage in my experience, alot of time i spend in thoughts, its seems to be the main thing i see, and identify with. this excercise is really helping. i am understanding how the mind bunches all of the senses together then adds a label. and that label is where i have been meeting life, not what that label is actually pointing to. always a hair breath away from reality and truth. avoiding that intimacy of all that is. i also know there is no 'i' to meet life. that this is all one big happening. i dont even know how to articulate, words are falling short here.


i feel lazy. like a laziness. i say i want to wake up, but I'm not looking. there is a laziness to looking. sometimes. it feels like labour, work, much effort. resistance is there ha

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Thank you very much for this reminder and pointer ha

Ceylan

[warissem]

Good evening

Thank you for your grace. immense gratitude.

You are much welcome.

Yes, i can see this. What is being experienced now is alot of fear. great resistance is there. a contractive feeling. A great deal of suffering has been experienced in the emotion of guilt. a sticky one to let go of ha who am 'i' without guilt ha. haha I ceases to exist.

It is fine that there is awareness of these arisings (fear, resistance, contraction, guilt). Looking at them as objects lessens the identification in a separate self, in a me to which all these happens. I invite you to deepen the investigation through the pointers shown below :

A feeling is a sensattion + a thought (or a label). Now instead of giving credit to the thought (label), look at the bodily sensations to deal with fear, resistance, guilt, ...
Example : fear
Let go of the concept "fear" and look at the bodily sensations which are arising right now. Be gentle with these sensations, welcome them and give them light (just be aware of them or give attention to them). Let go all thoughts which continue to arise. Look at what is behind the sensations : is there a you, a separate self to which sensations happen?
Is there a you, a separate self feeling sensations?
Is there a you, a separate self observing sensations?

Do the same practice and answer to the same questions concerning guilt, resistance, contraction, ...

there is a great fear of awakening. i can feel how close it is. and still ther is this hook trying to hang on. i feel like i am going to die ha there is resistance. like do i actually want to do this haha. a fear of death. is the only was to describe it.

When the fear of death arises, can you look directly at it without judgment, and allow it to just be there, as it is?
When you look closely at this fear of awakening, what does it seem to be protecting you from?
Who is it that is afraid to die or afraid of awakening? Can you observe that 'who' without judgment?

thoughts are alot, they always take centre stage in my experience, alot of time i spend in thoughts, its seems to be the main thing i see, and identify with. this excercise is really helping. i am understanding how the mind bunches all of the senses together then adds a label. and that label is where i have been meeting life, not what that label is actually pointing to. always a hair breath away from reality and truth. avoiding that intimacy of all that is. i also know there is no 'i' to meet life. that this is all one big happening. i dont even know how to articulate, words are falling short here.

You said words fall short—can you allow that to be okay, and just rest in the knowing that there is a deeper truth that cannot be captured by language?

i feel lazy. like a laziness. i say i want to wake up, but I'm not looking. there is a laziness to looking. sometimes. it feels like labour, work, much effort. resistance is there ha

Who is wanting to wake up?
Who feels lazy?

Is there an I which is wanting to awaken or feels lazy or these statements are just train of thoughts?
How does resistance express itself without the label "resistance"?


Waiting for your insights