Journey Within

[Canfora]

I wasn't expecting us to go this way, but it seems we are. Let's see what happens.
I think you have seen there is no self outside you.
I also think you may have realized there isn't a self inside the body - no self inside.
So, no self outside and no self inside.

Let me know if this ^ isn't clear.

It seems to me the only place that remains to be looked at, is what is looking.
And the most direct way I know how to do that is this exprience - which may resonate with you or not, but I think its worth a shot: https://www.headless.org/experiments/pointing.htm

The goal is to do the experience and check if at zero distance of what you are, you can see a separate, solid, permanent, real self.

Let me know how this goes for you.

Take care,
C

[Wintonia]

Hi C,

You were not expecting us to go this way? Tell me, did I miss something or have you noticed something at odds in my responses? Will try the experiment.

Thanks.

[Wintonia]

You know C, I have attempted these exercises and I get it...I really do, I see it, I 'know' it ... but I just cannot seem to feel it. I don't know what I am missing and it is truly starting to get to a point of frustration. 'I'm' not inside my body, neither am 'I' outside of it, this much I know, there is no 'I' or self. I empty my mind and try to see it all at a very basic level but it still leaves me back where I started. I was hopeful that the experiments would help but still feels conceptual.

[Canfora]

I understand what you're saying.

I was hopeful that the experiments would help

Help with what? What are you expecting?

[Wintonia]

Not expecting much but to see the plain truth...not know of it...but see it.

[Wintonia]

Hi C,

Are you still there?

[Canfora]

Yes, I am! I wrote an anwer and it seems it's gone. How strange.

Not expecting much but to see the plain truth...not know of it...but see it.

How do you think seeing the plain truth will be? What will you see? Can you describe how the plain truth will look like?

[Wintonia]

You know, initially I thought I would get a huge 'aha' moment (possibly with confetti lol) but while I was in bed last night, I had the strangest feeling. Lying on my back and drawing in air, I felt no difference between my body, the air I was drawing in, the sounds I was hearing and my immediate environment. It felt like this was all one large organism of which I was not only a part of, but also the whole. It lasted about a minute and I came back into 'my' body. So after this experience perhaps the confetti won't be coming, it would appear to be more of a realization of something that has always been there. More like looking for your glasses while they are on your head.

[Canfora]

Yes! This is not about any kind of experience, experiences come and go, in all kind of flavours, in all shapes and forms. And they will keep going on. This is about seeing clearly. Now. Here. Seeing what is here, as it is, regardless of the thinking that may pop up.

It lasted about a minute and I came back into 'my' body.

Did you really? Are you inside a body? Where could you be? Inside the head? In the heart? Somewhere else?
Would a body scan show a little self somewhere inside the body, pulling the levers?

More like looking for your glasses while they are on your head.

Yes again! You think there is a separate self. Can you see such a thing?
Have a look.
The truth is in plain sight.
Can you find a separate self?
Look.

[Wintonia]

I think it was more of a body 'awareness' than a 'coming back into'. I needed to quickly clarify that point. Otherwise I'm quite aligned on every aspect you have pointed out C. It is the final look, the perception that I seem to keep missing, maybe I cannot turn off the constant thinking, the logic, or maybe I keep expecting it to look like something...I don't know. starting to give up here.

[Canfora]

Why would you give up? Unless you want to move into something else?
So, are you saying that a self is real? Or that you can see there is no self but that was not what you are looking for? Or that you see there is no self but are trying to have a better no-self experience? :)

[Wintonia]

Or that you see there is no self but are trying to have a better no-self experience?

This, this is exactly what I would like. Have a better 'no self' experience. Beyond the logic, the concepts...just one untethered experience.

[Canfora]

Hi Wintonia!

This, this is exactly what I would like. Have a better 'no self' experience. Beyond the logic, the concepts...just one untethered experience.

I get it.
Can you please describe how this present no self experience could be conceptual? I don't get it. Do you need concepts to see there isn't a self?

How do you know your present experience isn't one untethered experience? When you look, what are the tethers that you find?

Take care,
C

[Wintonia]

Well honestly I still feel like there is me.. and the rest of the world. Me ends where my body ends....here is the tether. I guess the physical confines of the body and the exclusive nature of my thoughts. This creates the dichotomy and maintains the tether.

[Canfora]

I think you're saying that you feel the body is where you are.
Without that very useful perception, how would you be able to cross a busy road without getting hit by cars?
It feels there is me and the rest of the world. Yes, sure.
But is this me, this entity that seems to be separated, something that can be found in the body, inside the body, looking to the body? Is it realy a thing inside the body? Or is this me a superposition of a belief -a me - that seems to override what is present - a body?

The only way to know is to look and see for yourself what is here.

What do you see when you look to the body? Do you see a you or do you see parts of the body?

Explore what seems to be the body with eyes closed. Practically speaking, probably the best way to do this would be to read a question, then close your eyes and investigate your experience. Then open your eyes, read another question, and so on…

With EYES CLOSED … consider the following:

Going by your own, present experience, not by memory, hearsay or imagination, how big are you?

What shape are you?

Could you be any size or shape?

Do you have boundaries?

Is there a place where you stop and the world begins? Or is there nothing dividing you from the world?

You experience sensations such as warmth, discomfort, pleasure, breathing and so on. Do these make you into 'something' at centre, solid and limited – a thing separate from the world around you? Is there anything solid and unchanging at your centre?

How big is a sensation? Does it define or limit you?

Attend to your right foot. Think of what it looks like. Isn’t the image a memory, since you cannot see your foot at the moment?

But what about the actual sensation of your foot, your experience of it in this present moment, putting aside memory? What colour is that sensation, what shape, what size?

How far away is it? (From where?)

Where exactly are its boundaries – does it have a clear edge?

Is this sensation where your being stops? Are you limited to it, somehow imprisoned inside it?

Let me know what you find!