Recognizing my non-dual nature

[Noro]

Hi Thomas,

It was wonderful to read your last post.

We have some checking-in questions that are then passed to other guides to offer feedback and further questions if they have them. Would you be ready for these questions ?

In the meantime, awaiting your reply, here is a lovely video discussion with Ilona and some guests on a recent zoom call that I think you might enjoy.

https://youtu.be/yQcYx1GBthY?si=jim3q_MGLsro5j7j

With love,

Rowena

[Secrethippie]

Hi Rowena,

Sure send me the questions.

And thanks for sharing the video, it was indeed very lovely and insightful!

Loving regards,
Thomas

[Noro]

Hi Thomas,

Here are the questions which will be shared with other guides for their comments and further questions that may be asked:



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?


5a) Describe decision and give examples from experience.

b) Describe intention and give examples from experience.

c) Describe free will and give examples from experience.

d) Describe choice and give examples from experience.

e) Describe control and give examples from experience.


6) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your experience.

7) What makes things happen? How does it work?

8) Anything to add?


With love,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hello Thomas,

Its been a while, would you like to check in and let me know how things are with you?

With love,

Rowena

[Secrethippie]

Hi Rowena,

so sorry for the late reply. Right after your message I got my transformative coaching course for 3 days straight and it sucked me right back into mind identification haha. Afterwards I was super busy with work, but in the meantime I have been going through our whole conversation again to get back into it. I want to answer the questions from that place and not from mind identification. Almost through the whole conversation, so I will get back to you shortly!

Kind regards,
Thomas

[Noro]

Hi Thomas,

Yes, that would certainly suck you right back into mind identification.
Take your time!

With love,

Rowena

[Secrethippie]

Hi Rowena,

Thank you for your patience. I noticed the past days full in social engagement mode how easy it is to get back into the trap and web of the mind, but underlying there is always this sence of noticing and calmness to find, especially in DE. Here are the answers to the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

This self, me or I is nothing other than a thought. Likewise, only thought can create a shape or form of it. It is a whole complext of thoughts, but when just seen for thought, there is nothing to find. It only ever was there in thought, but therefore it never actually was. Thoughts are not an actual representation of life, but more a distorted version of it.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It is a complex of the body mind system. It is an incongruent story, that just has never been investigated. When we are young, our family and society demands from us that we become a person, a someone, and we go through life assuming or believing this to be true. We have no reason to question it. For a long time it felt like there was someone oberving life and in fact being seperate from it. A person observing from the eyes. However when closely inspecting it, it becomes clear that it is just a particular contraction of sensations together with thoughts binding them together into the experience of a person. When thoughts are just seen for what they are, thoughts, the sensations just seen for what they are, sensations, there is nothing more than the constantly changing patterns of life, represented by the direct experience of the senses and no entity standing seperate from it.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels a bit more spacious, but other than that it does not feel that much different. But it feels very alive. Everything is allowed to be there and there is no distance from whatever is happening. I guess what is different is that there is no need anymore to find a spiritual answer. Because there is not really anything to find. This immediate experience is the most spiritual it gets, and it is quite funny that I have been looking fo so long, but that in fact there is nothing to find. It is nothing ecstatic, nothing spectacular and nothing out of this world, but it is very beautiful. Life is very beautiful.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

The exercise with looking in the mirror to my different body parts made me realize that all of the seeking and all of the struggle and all of the ideas about a me and my body have only ever been in thoughts. It were all just thoughts.

5a) Describe decision and give examples from experience.

Decision is just something thoughts can claim. There is no one to make a decision. Choices are being made, yes, but they just happen by themselves. The decision to start typing this answer is just something that happened. I did not create the thoughts, I did not make the eventual decision to start typing. The decision to go visit my family this afternoon just happened. There is not even a need to think about decisions, if it were not for thought. There is no way things could have gone differently than they have.

b) Describe intention and give examples from experience.

Again, intention is something that only exists in thougths. There is a natural pull towards something or not. You can't choose your intention. An intention to go look for yourself only happens or not. The intention to devote to the spiritual path only happens or not. My intention to start looking for the self, was something that happened because my being felt a pull towards it and understood that it did not want to be in pure mind identification. The intention just arose without an intention for it to arise.

c) Describe free will and give examples from experience.

There is no free will, because this would imply an entity that is seperate from the happening of life. I can't find this seperate entity, so there is no one who could even have a free will. Just like everything in nature is happening all by itself, the thoughts that I have, the choices that I make in life, the spiritual progress are all out of my control.

d) Describe choice and give examples from experience.

Choices are constantly made, but all of them unconsciously. There is no one making the choices. Thoughts create this idea that there are different options, which there are, but also that there is someone that can choose a particular one. But again, that is just a thought. In direct experience choices are nothing more but the flow of life, the unfolding of new situations and the awareness of them. It is fine if thoughts want to overlay it, it can do it however it wants to, and it might influence the outcome, but these thoughts are not seperate from the happening of life. They all arise by themselves, and yet in direct contact with life.

e) Describe control and give examples from experience.

There is no control over life. I have no control over the weather, I have no control over when I meet the love of my life, I have no control over the food I will eat today. This would imply that there is an entity and agent that can control life, while the rest of it is all just happening. It is very calming to realize this. I didn't have control over where I am in life right now and no control over where I will head to. All I can do is be aware, and even that is not something I have control over haha.

6) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your experience.

I am not responsible for anything, but it is natural to take your responsibility. I am not responsible for how well I do in my career, how much money I make, how my relationships go, but realizing this does not mean that I don't do anything. In fact it is quite the opposite. I still want to learn, want to improve, want to love, want to create fulfilment, but I don't need someone to feel responsible for it. This feeling of responsibility happens all by itself. Where I feel love for with get my responsibility. I naturally feel this for friends, family, career, relationships, the planet, humans.

7) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Everthing is just happening by itself. There is no explanation for how things are happening and what is causing it. And there is no explanation required. Just realizing that you are part of this happening is a beautiful realization and will exclude the necessity for finding answers to these questions that have been capturing humanity for ages. Just tuning into DE is the closest to the wisdom you can get. Just be present and you won't have to need to understand how it works. How what works even? haha. Noticing that you are part of the mystery of life is deeply satisfying and it feel this is only deepening.

8) Anything to add?

THank you so much for your help Rowena. It has been enormously helpfull and I really felt the love and understanding from your site. I think it is amazing that you are doing this for others and you have helped me tremendously with cutting through some of the big illusions that have been there for a long time. There is still work to do, to stabilize these insights, and to integrate it in life, but like everything that will go in waves and that will happen as it wants to. I feel much more calm, ease and presence now in this whole process and I am curious what will unfold in my experience.

Loving regards,
Thomas

[Noro]

Hello Thomas,

Thanks for your answers. Before I send them off for other guides to look at and perhaps form their own questions, I would like you to take a look at this one:

6) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your experience.

I am not responsible for anything, but it is natural to take your responsibility.

Who or what is this "I" that is or is not responsible? Is there someone that can be responsible or not? Or that can actually take responsibility? Please could you say a bit more about this.

I am not responsible for how well I do in my career, how much money I make, how my relationships go,

but realizing this does not mean that I don't do anything.

Where is this "I" located that can do, or not do something? How does "doing" happen? Please say more about this.

In fact it is quite the opposite. I still want to learn, want to improve, want to love, want to create fulfilment, but I don't need someone to feel responsible for it. This feeling of responsibility happens all by itself. Where I feel love for with get my responsibility. I naturally feel this for friends, family, career, relationships, the planet, humans.

There are a lot of thoughts here about learning, improving, wanting to love etc. all perfectly fine as the content of thought, but to what or to whom do they apply? Is there a separate, independent, autonomous individual called Thomas who can learn, improve, be in a loving relationship and create fulfillment, and who can feel or not feel responsible?

How does it feel as you consider this question of responsibility now that you have looked at it again?


With love,

Rowena

[Secrethippie]

Hi Rowena,

Hmm good clarifying questions.

Who or what is this "I" that is or is not responsible? Is there someone that can be responsible or not? Or that can actually take responsibility? Please could you say a bit more about this.

There is no I that is responsible. Nothing to find. Responsibility is a thought that can be framed as if it is a someone that has it and as is if the things that are done from responsibility (the thought of it), are linked to the identity of this someone. But there is no one to take responsibilaty. There are simply actions taken and thoughts linking them together as if done from a responsible person.

Where is this "I" located that can do, or not do something? How does "doing" happen? Please say more about this.

There is no I that is doing or not doing something. There is just the happening of life and thoughts trying to frame it as a doer, a central figure in the midst of all that is happening. But this figure can't be located, because it does not exist. Doing is a very natural process that takes place due to stimuli in the senses, primary needs (like when hungry, you eat), and emotions (when you are afraid, you might run). So yes, like the other senses, thoughts might influence the doing, but there is not a someone or an I linked to it or in the middle of all of it or actually doing it. There is the mere act of doing whatever is being done at a certain moment. Anything done in the past or anything planned in the future is just a thought. And any conscious act of doing, like finding a job you like, is a thought, and not related to the mere act of doing something right here right now. That something just happens or not.

There are a lot of thoughts here about learning, improving, wanting to love etc. all perfectly fine as the content of thought, but to what or to whom do they apply? Is there a separate, independent, autonomous individual called Thomas who can learn, improve, be in a loving relationship and create fulfillment, and who can feel or not feel responsible?

Yes lots of thoughts indeed. They apply to no one. The idea of Thomas is still a little bit linked to these actions, however they are just thoughts and a sensory experience linked to them. However, when seen for what they are, there is just the thoughts, the senses and no Thomas to find in all of this. Yes, the feeling of a me still exists (as a thought in combination with the senses), but in DE there is nothing of that. It is noticed that many of these things (wanting, improving, learning) are still taking place on a conventional level, but there does not need to be a me central in all of it. There has never actually been a me central in all of it (the illusion was there yes, and the illusion still takes over easily). That is why I said, that not much has changed, tho I notice more and more that things are just happening. It is only when captured in thoughts that is still feels like a me going through life. A me being responsible. A me having goals, having ambition, wanting love. This is very much stimulated by a crazy buzy period and a lack of sleep. However, all of it is just happening. And when viewed in direct experience, all of it is just a complex of thoughts, nothing more. There is no me that is sleeping bad and there is no me that is giving training and coaching to others, however, in the heat of the moment, the illusionary experience of the self comes to the forefront again. Hence I mentioned, the insights have not fully been integrated yet, but definitely something has changed. There will luckily be more space upcoming months to make this integration happen.

How does it feel as you consider this question of responsibility now that you have looked at it again?

There is no such thing as responsibility, if not in thought and there is especially no one being responsible. There is just the natural pull towards things and valuation towards things that matter. But it all happens without a person deciding what he should be responsible for. I understand that the wording I used in my first answer, where done from thought content.

With love,
Thomas

[Noro]

Hello Thomas,

Thanks for clarifying the question of responsibility. I have now forwarded your answers on to the other guides to take a look at and see if there are any questions that they might wish to ask.

Hence I mentioned, the insights have not fully been integrated yet, but definitely something has changed. There will luckily be more space upcoming months to make this integration happen.

Yes, that's the way it goes, and you will find that new insights will arise and will slowly integrate in a continuous process, and a natural impulse to look deeper, clarify and release continues. Doubt may or may not put in an appearance, this is normal. Adverse conditioned responses and old patterns will get triggered when circumstances align, offering further opportunities for insight and integration.

It has been a real pleasure to guide you and I am so grateful that you allowed me to walk this path with you. I would just like to give some final things to consider:

Guiding on the LU forum is a great way to 'deepen' and is a possibility that you may wish to consider, if not now, then in the future.

You will be invited to the Unleashed FB group, this offers a way to communicate with others on this path.
I will greet you at the Facebook group if you join, and we can connect there. And I am always happy to hear from you if you feel like sharing on how things evolve. Also, please know that this conversation thread will also remain available if you would like to use it for any questions.

You are invited to join any of 3 weekly free zoom meetings which offer a space to listen, share and even offer guidance as and if the inclination arises. Please contact Vince Schubert via email: vinceschubert@gmail.com for a link and schedule.

Below are other excellent resources for further exploration. Go with what resonates!

Simply Awake app - Free app for your phone that contains dozens of meditation that will help you to keep looking deeper.

Also a great video from Angelo Dilullo on this process and how it deepens on its own, if not resisted, YouTube: Simply Always Awake "Self and No-Self"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X_Xpd10pV0&t=38s

If you're interested in the fetters go to Kevin Shanilek's website for information:
https://simplytheseen.com/

Also a great video conversation with Ilona and Kevin Shanilek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xWfBHN6oRk

Todd and Pernille Lent Damore also offer many helpful videos on each fetter on their YouTube Channels:
Unfettered Mindfulness and The Awakening Curriculum

Perfectly Okay.Org:
https://perfectlyokay.org/ - A free, supportive community that has many different modalities and meetings.

Luchana & Lubo have group on Thursdays. Please contact Luchana at:
luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting, contact:
admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link and schedule.

All the best to you, Thomas,
With love,

Rowena

[Noro]

Hi Thomas, here are a couple of questions for you:

1) Is there a sense of seeking another, deeper or more final seeing through self? If yes, say more about what is being sought?

2) If you read the sentence "this is it, this awakening" what reactions come up, what feelings and thoughts? Allowing everything to be seen and felt and expressed.

[Noro]

Hello Thomas,

Just checking in that you received the last post with the two questions?

With love,

Rowena

[Secrethippie]

Hi Rowena,

Thank you so much for all the extra information.
I love Angelo Dilullo's work, but did not know of the simply awake app yet.
I will check out the other things as well.

I will get an invite for the facebook group right??

Regarding the questions:

1) Is there a sense of seeking another, deeper or more final seeing through self? If yes, say more about what is being sought?

Nothing in particular is being sought, unless by the mind. But there is still a looking, like I said, to a full integration of the non-dual nature of everything. However, all the seeking is done by the mind, there is still this pull towards a deeper understanding. But to be honest, I have let go of the expectations of enlightment or what it will be like. I am meditating to stabalize no-self and not to be captured by thoughts. To be in Direct experience, even in the business of life.

2) If you read the sentence "this is it, this awakening" what reactions come up, what feelings and thoughts? Allowing everything to be seen and felt and expressed.

Thoughts:
- This is not it
- I am still not satisfied
- There must be more

Feelings:
- Sadness
- Fear
- Confusion

These are the things that arise after this particulary stressful and tensed period.

I will be going on a retreat for 5 days (starting today), so I am curious if long hours for meditation will help with the integration. I really don't expect anything, I will see what will come my way.

Much love,
Thomas

[Noro]

Hi Thomas,

I hope you had a great retreat.

I will be going on a retreat for 5 days (starting today), so I am curious if long hours for meditation will help with the integration. I really don't expect anything, I will see what will come my way.

I expect that you will be reading this after your retreat.
The guide who asked the last questions thought that this was a good time for you to take another look at those last two questions to see what, if anything, has changed.

1) Is there a sense of seeking another, deeper or more final seeing through self? If yes, say more about what is being sought?

2) If you read the sentence "this is it, this awakening" what reactions come up, what feelings and thoughts? Allowing everything to be seen and felt and expressed.

However, all the seeking is done by the mind, there is still this pull towards a deeper understanding.

What is this pull? Where is it found? In thought, or in sensation?
If in thought: can a thought pull or push or take any action?
If in sensation: can sensations think, analyze, label, describe or interpret?
Follow the signal being offered up here (pull) ...... allow it to take you deeper.
Feel that pull, embrace that pull! Where into the body does that pull take you?

Thoughts:
- This is not it
- I am still not satisfied
- There must be more

Feelings:
- Sadness
- Fear
- Confusion

See the thoughts above as pointers "towards a deeper understanding."
Dive into the feelings and sensations arising.
Embrace the feelings you have expressed above, stay with them, see where they lead.

You can make a 'practice' of reciting each thought, one at a time, and see where it leads to in the body.

Take your time with this!

Thinking of this beautiful quote by Rumi:
"Let yourself be silently drawn by the strange pull of what you really love. It will not lead you astray."

And regarding the FB community, that email will come once all the guides have no further questions.

With love,
Rowena

[Noro]

Hello Thomas,

How was your retreat?

Would you like to look at those final two questions again and share what comes up now when you consider them?

With love,

Rowena