LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
"I" or "self" is just an idea, a story, a thought, a belief. It is a thought that points to nothing. Yet, Awareness still habitually holds on to this belief whenever it experiences anything. As a result, a duality of subject/object is created.
What are you looking for at LU?
Permanently seeing through the illusion of "I". Anatta - 24/7 in the relative world.
The concept of "No self" is understood intellectually. And also when attention is paid, there's no self. When there's intention to experience no self, Non-doership can be experienced. For example, right now "I' can sense the fingers just type by themselves. No one is doing anything.
However, in life, "I" would still habitually arise most of the time, unless special attention is paid.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I've read the book Gateless Gatecrashers, and I'd love to have a guide who can work with me to see through the illusion permanently. Either via text, email, or Zoom calls would be great!
For context - my two fav spiritual teachers are Angelo Dillulo and Michael Taft.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been meditating for the last 3+ years. I have been meditating for 1 hour a day every single day for the past 2 years. I've been to 2 ten-day Vipassana retreats, 3 Angelo Dillulo online retreats, and multiple Zen retreats.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11
Hello Gateless Gatecrashers <> Weiting
Re: Hello Gateless Gatecrashers <> Weiting
Hi weiting, I'm Tyler and welcome to LU :)
First, I have a couple questions for you..
Why? Why do you want this? What are you hoping 24/7 anatta will do for you? What if the time never comes when self doesn't arise in your experience? I get that a lot of this is about the end of suffering for many people, but I'm sensing a bit of a "I don't want to suffer so I'll go achieve this thing. After I achieve 'this', I won't suffer anymore. Maybe if I do XYZ and listen to XYZ I'll finally get what I don't have and I won't have to suffer anymore."
There's nothing wrong with this, but recognise that it's a narrative. It's a story, a thought. The content of thought is totally arbitrary. If the content of your thoughts was instead "I have to make a lot of money and become successful, then I'll be truly happy", you would be off doing something totally different right now.
How much of what you do is narrative-driven? How much is "this, therefore that, therefore that, therefore I should be doing this right now"? What would you be doing if you had no logical train of thought to deduce the next course of action? Why do you put faith in whatever thought says you should be doing? Why do you believe any thought at all?
In what kind of situations do you most strongly feel the "I"?
For your next few meditation sessions, ask yourself the question: "What's here that's not a thought?" If you have doubts about whether you're doing it correctly, note that these doubts are thoughts and return to the question. If you notice that there's silence after the question, note that the noticing of the fact of silence is a thought and return to the question. If you get frustrated, note that you're believing a thought like "this isn't working" or something similar and return to the question. Let me know how that works out for ya
First, I have a couple questions for you..
Why? Why do you want this? What are you hoping 24/7 anatta will do for you? What if the time never comes when self doesn't arise in your experience? I get that a lot of this is about the end of suffering for many people, but I'm sensing a bit of a "I don't want to suffer so I'll go achieve this thing. After I achieve 'this', I won't suffer anymore. Maybe if I do XYZ and listen to XYZ I'll finally get what I don't have and I won't have to suffer anymore."
There's nothing wrong with this, but recognise that it's a narrative. It's a story, a thought. The content of thought is totally arbitrary. If the content of your thoughts was instead "I have to make a lot of money and become successful, then I'll be truly happy", you would be off doing something totally different right now.
How much of what you do is narrative-driven? How much is "this, therefore that, therefore that, therefore I should be doing this right now"? What would you be doing if you had no logical train of thought to deduce the next course of action? Why do you put faith in whatever thought says you should be doing? Why do you believe any thought at all?
In what kind of situations do you most strongly feel the "I"?
For your next few meditation sessions, ask yourself the question: "What's here that's not a thought?" If you have doubts about whether you're doing it correctly, note that these doubts are thoughts and return to the question. If you notice that there's silence after the question, note that the noticing of the fact of silence is a thought and return to the question. If you get frustrated, note that you're believing a thought like "this isn't working" or something similar and return to the question. Let me know how that works out for ya
Re: Hello Gateless Gatecrashers <> Weiting
Hello Tyler!
I'm sorry that I completely missed this.
Let me answer your questions below:
Q: Why? Why do you want this? What are you hoping 24/7 anatta will do for you?
Experience reality the way it is. With 24/7 anatta, there won't be a "me".
Q: What if the time never comes when self doesn't arise in your experience?
That's fine, as that's the way things are. There's no doer, so there's nothing "I" can do about this, anyways :)
> I'm sensing a bit of a "I don't want to suffer so I'll go achieve this thing. After I achieve 'this', I won't suffer anymore. Maybe if I do XYZ and listen to XYZ I'll finally get what I don't have and I won't have to suffer anymore."
The main driver for anatta isn't really to avoid suffering. I'd say objectively my life is quite good. It's not perfect, but I feel I'm not doing this to avoid suffering. Another friend even commented that I enjoy the story of the life too much and that's why I haven't awakened yet.
Q: How much of what you do is narrative-driven? How much is "this, therefore that, therefore that, therefore I should be doing this right now"?
I wanted to say that I've become quite intuitive these days. And whenever I remember, I'd switch to "auto-pilot" mode where the sense of the doer becomes very thin and the body just does things by itself (e.g. walking, washing dishes, sometimes even typing, like right now)
However, moment by moment I still get sucked into the story of life most of the time - I'd say probably 98% of the time.
Q: What would you be doing if you had no logical train of thought to deduce the next course of action?
I'd be doing exactly what I'd be doing with logical train of thought. The sense of a doer is an illusion.
Q: Why do you put faith in whatever thought says you should be doing? Why do you believe any thought at all?
I'm fully aware thoughts and beliefs are empty. They are neither true or false. Only believed or not believed.
I believe the life experience is simply Awareness believing in beliefs and those beliefs projecting experiences for Awareness to experience. So whatever beliefs are held, those would be the life experiences.
So to have a desirable positive life, "I" choose to believe in those beliefs. Whenever something undesirable happens, I'd questions my beliefs.
Q: In what kind of situations do you most strongly feel the "I"?
Usually when I am suffering intensely and forgetting to self-inquire 'who's suffering?' - i.e. being sucked into the story of life completely. Forgetting that I'm not a human being and actually there's no "i"
I will deliberate do the "What's here that's not a thought?" meditation as you recommended in the next few days. FYI, I've been doing my meditations mostly following Michael Taft's: https://www.youtube.com/@MichaelTaft108/streams
Which seem to have elements of what you suggested.
Thank you!
I'm sorry that I completely missed this.
Let me answer your questions below:
Q: Why? Why do you want this? What are you hoping 24/7 anatta will do for you?
Experience reality the way it is. With 24/7 anatta, there won't be a "me".
Q: What if the time never comes when self doesn't arise in your experience?
That's fine, as that's the way things are. There's no doer, so there's nothing "I" can do about this, anyways :)
> I'm sensing a bit of a "I don't want to suffer so I'll go achieve this thing. After I achieve 'this', I won't suffer anymore. Maybe if I do XYZ and listen to XYZ I'll finally get what I don't have and I won't have to suffer anymore."
The main driver for anatta isn't really to avoid suffering. I'd say objectively my life is quite good. It's not perfect, but I feel I'm not doing this to avoid suffering. Another friend even commented that I enjoy the story of the life too much and that's why I haven't awakened yet.
Q: How much of what you do is narrative-driven? How much is "this, therefore that, therefore that, therefore I should be doing this right now"?
I wanted to say that I've become quite intuitive these days. And whenever I remember, I'd switch to "auto-pilot" mode where the sense of the doer becomes very thin and the body just does things by itself (e.g. walking, washing dishes, sometimes even typing, like right now)
However, moment by moment I still get sucked into the story of life most of the time - I'd say probably 98% of the time.
Q: What would you be doing if you had no logical train of thought to deduce the next course of action?
I'd be doing exactly what I'd be doing with logical train of thought. The sense of a doer is an illusion.
Q: Why do you put faith in whatever thought says you should be doing? Why do you believe any thought at all?
I'm fully aware thoughts and beliefs are empty. They are neither true or false. Only believed or not believed.
I believe the life experience is simply Awareness believing in beliefs and those beliefs projecting experiences for Awareness to experience. So whatever beliefs are held, those would be the life experiences.
So to have a desirable positive life, "I" choose to believe in those beliefs. Whenever something undesirable happens, I'd questions my beliefs.
Q: In what kind of situations do you most strongly feel the "I"?
Usually when I am suffering intensely and forgetting to self-inquire 'who's suffering?' - i.e. being sucked into the story of life completely. Forgetting that I'm not a human being and actually there's no "i"
I will deliberate do the "What's here that's not a thought?" meditation as you recommended in the next few days. FYI, I've been doing my meditations mostly following Michael Taft's: https://www.youtube.com/@MichaelTaft108/streams
Which seem to have elements of what you suggested.
Thank you!
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