Looking for a guide

[LilaLila]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Basically that the self is an illusion that binds you on the wheel of suffering -- suffering both gross and subtle. Freeing yourself from the belief and conceit of a self, "you" are able to experience life in a much more real way.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide to help me in the process of liberation. I am looking to connect with other people who are on the same path, especially those who are slightly or far ahead of me. I curious about the experiences of others, and to share my own.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I prefer a guide who might lead me through the breaking of fetters. I expect direction, orientation as to where I might be in the process, suggestions for further practice, as well warnings as potential pitfalls, difficulties.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been meditating for 20 years, since I was a teenager. I have done Ramana Maharishi's "who am I?" inquiry. I practice TWIM meditation regularly (meditation based on metta and the early buddhist sutta). It is possible that I was brought to stream entry using this method. More recently I have been following the work of Dr. Angelo Dilullo, using his self-inquiry methods.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[WesleySPK]

Hello Lilalila,

My name is Wesley, I'm a guide here at LU, and if you agree I would be happy to guide you. I guided after completing LU myself for around a year, and am happy to say that in that time I was able to help several individuals with their inquiry, to the end. I have taken a break for several years as I've been focusing on my degree, but I once again feel the call to help others such as yourself. That's just to say, it's a pleasure for me to help as best as I can :).

Would you like me to refer to you as Lilalila? Just Lila?

I prefer a guide who might lead me through the breaking of fetters. I expect direction, orientation as to where I might be in the process, suggestions for further practice, as well warnings as potential pitfalls, difficulties.

I am familiar with the fetters; I discovered them after doing LU myself. I will only be able to help you with this current fetter, but should you finish and want to go on I can point you to where you can find people who can continue guiding in the fetters. But let's take it one step at a time ;).

So, a couple of guidelines before we get started. My sole purpose is to ask you questions that will get you to look in your direct experience for the existence of a self, an "I", a "me" - call it whatever you like. That being said, all other spiritual or philosophical teachings, books, videos, etc., will be of no use here. That isn't to say they aren't lovely, but will be at best a distraction when it comes to this inquiry.

So, my advice is to put aside all books, teachings, videos for the moment (you can continue meditating and any other practice that's ok), to come at this with a fresh perspective.

Secondly, to maintain momentum in this, I would recommend trying to post daily. That being said, I myself my only be able to respond once per day, and if you cannot post sometimes that's more than ok with me. After all, this is your undertaking and we will go at your pace, at a rhythm that is comfortable for you.

Before we dive in, do you have any fears surrounding this inquiry? Are you expecting that some part of you will disappear maybe? It can be important to address these first.

If there is no fear, then may I ask : how would you describe the act of "looking"? We are indeed going to be doing a lot of looking, so what does "looking" even mean?

Looking forward to your answer :)
Wesley

[LilaLila]

Hi Wesley,

Thank you for your response. Lila would be fine, ty. Would this be done here, in this thread or perhaps over email?

Lila

[WesleySPK]

Hi Lila,

It's as you wish. We can post here, or we can do email if you would like.

Wesley

[LilaLila]

Ty Wesley -- I sent you a private message.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Lila,

I read your message on Brooklyn's thread. Please don't post on other people's threads. You requested that I guide you. Yes, I can do that.

It looks like you started to be guided last year. Hopefully, you notified that vide, Wesley, that you're looking for another guide. I imagine he'd be okay with that.

So, you read my thread with Brooklyn & you say you tried the pointers there. Let's bring that over here & start at the beginning to identify what is Direct Experience and what is not.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


I'm near Boulder, Colorado in Mountain Time. And you?

Loving,

[LilaLila]

Yes I believe I'm clear about this. I'm on EST.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, good. Maybe you did this reading on your own, but I'd like to see these basics.


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[LilaLila]

Looking at plants, simply = color
Hearing heat comes on through vents, simply = sound
Thinking am I doing assignment right, simply = thought
Anxiety from “must” be in this format, simply = sensation
Thinking is food ready, simply = thought
Hunger, simply = sensation
Recalling conversation, simply = thought
Itch on shoulder, simply = sensation


Eating cookie, simply = taste
Thinking is coffee ready, simply = thought
Tasting remements of cookie in mouth, simply = taste
Thiinking this is good, simply = thought
More cookie in my mouth, simply = taste
Yum, simply = thought


Seeing sun come out = simply color
Feeling excitement at Sun coming out = simply sensation
Hearing heat through vents, = simply sound
Hearing airplane, simply = sound
Feeling tightness in skin,= simply sensation
Hearing X downstairs, = sound
Annoyance at tone, = simply sensation
No one is around, simply = thought
Looking at Christmas tree, simply = color
Hearing glass clink downstairs, simply = sound
Looking at black and white picture, simply = color
Thinking “not strictly speaking color”, simply =thought
Feeling amusement, simply = sensation
Thinking “in vajrayana..”, simply = thought
Feeling hot, simply= sensation
Outside, dreary, simply = sensation
Smelling cooking, simply = smell
Thinking about incident, simply = thought
Feeling concern about it, simply = sensation

[Anastacia42]

Good. Those are exactly right.

This is an extension of seeing Direct Experience.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[LilaLila]

I am thinking of incident
I am cold
I am hearing radiator
I am looking at printer
I am hearing air purifier
I feel fear, concern
I'm remembering annoying argument
I'm thinking .. “simplicity”
I'm feeling contraction
I feel stillness
I'm thinking “I is a lie”
I'm breathing
I'm seeing color
I'm thinking “maybe there isn't that much here after all”
I'm thinking “cutting through jungle”
I'm remembering show I just watched
I'm thinking restrict media diet
I'm thinking argument
I'm thinking there's nothing here
I'm hearing timbre of air purifier


***

Thinking “let's move on”
Thinking “good to do exercise immediately after first”
Seeing bird go by
Thinking “saw bird go by”
Seeing movement of leaf
Seeing plant swinging
Thinking what now
Thinking about bagel shop
Feeling tension in chest
Thinking is this the end of it
Thinking about other
Thinking truth can be handled
Thinking about oatmeal
Thinking porridge is good
Seeing dry ankle
Thinking winter
Thinking do year in review
Feeling a bit of shame
Thinking about [person]
Seeing poster
Seeing coffee
A little revulsed by thickness
Remembering incident
Feeling indignation in heart
Think “like looking at color of your socks.”
Think it's so sunny


1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

I do not know how to judge which is “truer”. The first certainly has an addition that feels contracting, “dark”.

2. What is here without labels?

Color, shapes, sound, textures, sensation, taste, odor, the “fact” of thoughts

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Typically, just describe the experience. But becoming aware of a label can also effect perception (eg, I see the green of a plant, and green becomes greener, stands out more).

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

The second certainly feels lighter, clearer, more boundless.

[Anastacia42]

Great. Hi.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660



Good noticing.

Right. The labels do not affect experience.

Here's more about the body Sensations:

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[LilaLila]

What is found?

Dissembled a bit when selling something to a big company. Tension in solar plexus. Also a tingly uncomfortable feeling that can be labeled shame.

do you see that

I believe I do.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Be aware of that as you go through these pointers. Now try this one that brings it all together a bit.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.


Loving

[LilaLila]

I did this exercise a few times since day before yesterday. This is just some highlights:

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

When looking at picture of an apple, thoughts come up: “Apple”, “yellow”, “stem”. There is the fact that they come up. They dont describe anything, but came up simultaneously with the looking at the picture.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Color. Different textures. And thoughts that arise related to “apple”.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No. It is a label.

However, is an apple actually known?

An apple is not known. Colors and form (textures, different shades of colors) are seen. The word apple arises along with other words, as well as memories (partially images, partially words). The words “this is an apple” has the feeling of contraction that comes with it (eg, like that feeling of lying). To add: if I say “this is an orange”, there is contraction, exasperation, and a shaking of the head “no”.