Trying to see through fetter 1

[Canfora]

Hi JT,

It seems to me that insted of looking you are relying on thinking to try to understand something.
Which is very normal and what we are used to do.
But the thinking isn't seeing. You don't have to understand to see something.
There is no need to understand anything about the weather to know when it's raining. You just have to look and feel the rain, to know what is going on.
This is a non verbal, non thinking, realization. It's a seeing.

You can't think yourself into seeing.
The seeing happens and the thoughts can't change it.

You can think about a pink unicorn. You can even "see" an imaginary unicorn, but the thoughts aren't going to manifest a real unicorn. And when you look it's obvious that a unicorn isn't real. It's the same with a self.

Let's try something different.
I would like you to take pictures of things. Things that you can see.
Notice how they are here, present, and how you don't need to think to know they are here.
They have a colour, a shape. You can even touch them and smell them.
You can think about what you are seeing or stop thinking about what you are seeing and what is being seen is just what it is, regardless of any thinking or lack of thinking about it.

Then take as many pictures as need, of what surrounds you, and see if in any of them you can find a self. See if you can see a self. Because, if there is a self, it must be something that is seen.

Thoughts may be about the obvious reality of a self.
But how about what can be found?
Can you see a self in any of the pictures you take?

Let me know how this goes.

Take care,
S

[lostandfound]

Hi Sandra,

I tried the exercise you suggested. I didn't find a self.

When I look with my eyes I see what is seen. When I look for a seer the only seer I find is the thought "I am seeing". When I listen, I hear sounds. When I look for a listener the only listener I find is the thought "I am hearing". Same with sensations, smells, and tastes.

When I look at my thoughts there are thoughts about everything. When I look for a thinker all I find is the thought "I am thinking". When I look for the I who is thinking, it's just more thoughts.

For some reason though, I'm still identified with my thoughts. It's hard to not feel like my thoughts are me. The thoughts come so quickly and it's hard for me to separate out what is a thought and what is real. Even though I know that sensory information is different from thoughts, it's hard to disentangle them.

Thank you,
JT

[Canfora]

Hi JT,

Well done!

For some reason though, I'm still identified with my thoughts.

If you can't find a self, how real is this thought? Other than thoughts, can you find a reason to believe there is a self that is still identified?

What can you see if you look at identification? What is identification made of?

What do you see when you look to thoughts? Is it possible to select and control the thoughts that appear?

Take care,
S

[lostandfound]

Hi Sandra,

I might need a few days with this one. I will respond as soon as I have something to report back.

Thank you,
JT

[Canfora]

Hi JT,

Thank you for letting me know.

Take care,
S

[Canfora]

Hi. Just to let you know that because you're not replying I stop guiding.
Take care,
S

[lostandfound]

Hi Sandra,

I understand. Sometimes it takes me a few days to a week to find time to practice. Should I look for another guide?

Thank you,
JT

[Canfora]

Hi there. I will make a post in the guides group and ask if there is someone available to guide you. If you don't get a reply here in a week maybe it's better if you contact administration or start a new topic asking for a new guide.

Take care,
S

[lostandfound]

Thank you, Sandra. I've enjoyed working with you. Thank you for all your help.

Best,
JT

[Elad]

Hi JT, Elad here, I will happy to continue the process with you.

Please write me a summery of where you experience you are at with this process so far.

What is clear, what is not clear?

What feelings are there about the process?

[lostandfound]

Hi Elad,

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it and I look forward to working together. Thank you for your help.

I've been looking for the self and I can't find it, but something still seems to be in the way. It hasn't felt like a big "aha" and I still have the "sense" that a self is there. I have had many moments over the past few weeks where I've noticed myself "selfing", but I still feel like it's "me" that is watching myself selfing. Right now I think I'm stuck in the intellectual.

I've been watching Pernille Damore's videos on the fetters. I finished all of the fetter 1 videos. They were very helpful. I'm now watching the fetter 2 videos. I'm wondering if the barrier lies in fetter 2. I experience a lot of doubt. Doubt of myself. Doubt of others. Doubt about how much I can trust the universe/God, etc. I'm just wondering how much of the sense of a self is being fueled by this doubt.

I'm also noticing just how much I'm "in my mind" identifying with thoughts. I think I'm so focused on my thoughts that I drown out the rest of reality (i.e., my senses).

I also want to share that I may not reply right away. I'm working two full time jobs right now, along with other responsibilities and I don't have a lot of time to do intense practice or to reply right away, but I will try my best to keep in touch. I'm trying to practice in my day-to-day duties, but it's not always the easiest way to practice.

Thank you!
JT

[Elad]

Hi JT

Thank you for your message. Lets start!

I've been looking for the self and I can't find it, but something still seems to be in the way. It hasn't felt like a big "aha" and I still have the "sense" that a self is there. I have had many moments over the past few weeks where I've noticed myself "selfing", but I still feel like it's "me" that is watching myself selfing. Right now I think I'm stuck in the intellectual.

Keep looking at:

1) What is it that is taken to be a "me" that watches? What exactly? Don't take any mind answer including nothing/I don't know for an answer. The real answer is a shift. Your job is to return and stay in the looking again and again.

2) What is this "feeling" that "I am the looker"? Where/what sensations is this feeling and how do these sensations/this feeling exactly say "there is a me"? With words? Could it be the feeing is not the problem, but just the interpretation of it that is added right away?

I've been watching Pernille Damore's videos on the fetters. I finished all of the fetter 1 videos. They were very helpful. I'm now watching the fetter 2 videos. I'm wondering if the barrier lies in fetter 2. I experience a lot of doubt. Doubt of myself. Doubt of others. Doubt about how much I can trust the universe/God, etc. I'm just wondering how much of the sense of a self is being fueled by this doubt.

Pernille and Todds work can be very helpful. But I wan't to suggest you leave alll reading and watching other nonduality stuff while we work together. At least we try it for 2-3 months. OK? While that stuff can be helpful, it can certainly also keep you more in some mental-interpretative mode, and dilute the directness of inquiry and our work.

I'm also noticing just how much I'm "in my mind" identifying with thoughts. I think I'm so focused on my thoughts that I drown out the rest of reality (i.e., my senses).

Good noticing. When you notice it, notice also how it happens by itself, not as your choice, not in your control.

I also want to share that I may not reply right away. I'm working two full time jobs right now, along with other responsibilities and I don't have a lot of time to do intense practice or to reply right away, but I will try my best to keep in touch. I'm trying to practice in my day-to-day duties, but it's not always the easiest way to practice.

That is a lot. Answering with a natural and sustainable pace is good. And looking many times during the day, during normal tasks and activities and mini breaks, is perfect. We don't need a special state for this. Just sincerity and perseverance.

Last thing for now. Please always answer questions in blue.

[Elad]

Dear guidees,

I will be taking a month of vacation, including from guiding, from May 26th to June 27th. You might want to use the time until May 26th to inquire with great wholeheartedness and beginners mind, maybe "the Gateless Gate will be passed". You might also want to update both of us on where you are in the process, and what is experienced as your wishes and needs now, if any - happy to hear from you before I leave. If during my vacation you feel a need to be supported by an LU guide, two of my trusted fellow guides will be available. During that period, contacting them might also be an opportunity to the get a different input - we never know what input, what energy, will suddenly make what is clear clear.

Fellow guides:

Alan: alan.home.mailbox@gmail.com
Becca: becca@supportedawakening.com

🙏

[lostandfound]

Hi Elad,

It's been a while since we talked. I hope you are doing well.

My life circumstances have changed dramatically, and I am now in a place where I have much more time to devote to fetter work.

I was wondering if we could start working together again. Please let me know.

Thank you,
JT

[Elad]

Hi JT,

Yes we can. Read my last message to you and work with/answer the questions in blue. We will take it from there.