Seeker123

[Noselfplzthx]

Hi Jess, we are off to a good start, it's great you report things as the come up, no matter how right/wrong good/bad insightful/not insightful it seems. This just seeing and sharing is at the core of this process.


Reading what came up, here are next two things two things to investigate:

1) The not having much reaction and then thoughts going to understand and get it right etc., seems indicate somewhat of a disconnect from the emotional, existential, direct felt level of this, and a defense/identification of living at the level of intellectualization and fantasy (the one who will understand, get it done, etc). So please sit more with the sensations and feelings that come from reading:

"There is no you, you don't exist, never did, your past and your future is an illusion"

Pay close attention to the sensation level and emotion level and describe what comes up. If again it seems like nothing, ask yourself what might I be unconsciously avoiding and again, just describe what comes up. Allow it to be loose and free what you share, be playful, open, explorative, almost as if you are discovering a character in a play.

2) This idea of "I am the observer of the one who believes in the self who feels the sensations who thinks the thoughts". What observer? What I? Can any of that be found in direct experience or might it just be beliefs?

There is no you, you don't exist, never did, your past and your future is an illusion

Just feels relaxed. Then thoughts. Numbness, sounds.breathing. Tears. Heaviness. Relaxed. Tingling all over.

Anger. Pride. Tightness is chest and stomach. There’s playful and teasing too but reluctant to share cuz they’re thoughts? Fear.

[Noselfplzthx]

Hi Jess, we are off to a good start, it's great you report things as the come up, no matter how right/wrong good/bad insightful/not insightful it seems. This just seeing and sharing is at the core of this process.


Reading what came up, here are next two things two things to investigate:

1) The not having much reaction and then thoughts going to understand and get it right etc., seems indicate somewhat of a disconnect from the emotional, existential, direct felt level of this, and a defense/identification of living at the level of intellectualization and fantasy (the one who will understand, get it done, etc). So please sit more with the sensations and feelings that come from reading:

"There is no you, you don't exist, never did, your past and your future is an illusion"

Pay close attention to the sensation level and emotion level and describe what comes up. If again it seems like nothing, ask yourself what might I be unconsciously avoiding and again, just describe what comes up. Allow it to be loose and free what you share, be playful, open, explorative, almost as if you are discovering a character in a play.

2) This idea of "I am the observer of the one who believes in the self who feels the sensations who thinks the thoughts". What observer? What I? Can any of that be found in direct experience or might it just be beliefs?

There is no you, you don't exist, never did, your past and your future is an illusion

Just feels relaxed. Then thoughts. Numbness, sounds.breathing. Tears. Heaviness. Relaxed. Tingling all over.

Anger. Pride. Tightness is chest and stomach. There’s playful and teasing too but reluctant to share cuz they’re thoughts? Fear.

Embarrassment.

[Elad]

Good openness and looking! Playful and teasing impulses are welcome here.

So...

"you do not exist"

the tears...

the relaxation....

the anger and pride...

the embarrassment...

the fear...

All the other reactions...

1) Where did all those reactions come from? What created them, decided them? What creates, decides whatever happens when "you" read this?

2) You did not answer question (2) from my last message. Please make sure to answer it, and moving forward all numbered questions I ask.

[Noselfplzthx]

Good openness and looking! Playful and teasing impulses are welcome here.

So...

"you do not exist"

the tears...

the relaxation....

the anger and pride...

the embarrassment...

the fear...

All the other reactions...

1) Where did all those reactions come from? What created them, decided them? What creates, decides whatever happens when "you" read this?

2) You did not answer question (2) from my last message. Please make sure to answer it, and moving forward all numbered questions I ask.

- Where did all those reactions come from? What created them, decided them? What creates, decides whatever happens when "you" read this?

It just happens.

- This idea of "I am the observer of the one who believes in the self who feels the sensations who thinks the thoughts". What observer? What I? Can any of that be found in direct experience or might it just be beliefs?

I don’t know. It felt like a sense of omnipresence.

I’ll continue to revisit

[Noselfplzthx]

Good openness and looking! Playful and teasing impulses are welcome here.

So...

"you do not exist"

the tears...

the relaxation....

the anger and pride...

the embarrassment...

the fear...

All the other reactions...

1) Where did all those reactions come from? What created them, decided them? What creates, decides whatever happens when "you" read this?

2) You did not answer question (2) from my last message. Please make sure to answer it, and moving forward all numbered questions I ask.

- Where did all those reactions come from? What created them, decided them? What creates, decides whatever happens when "you" read this?

It just happens. Anger, Rage, sadness just happened. Moved through the body just happening.

- This idea of "I am the observer of the one who believes in the self who feels the sensations who thinks the thoughts". What observer? What I? Can any of that be found in direct experience or might it just be beliefs?

I don’t know. It felt like a sense of omnipresence. Like a seeing above it all but like blackness, nothingness.

I’ll continue to revisit

[Noselfplzthx]

Good openness and looking! Playful and teasing impulses are welcome here.

So...

"you do not exist"

the tears...

the relaxation....

the anger and pride...

the embarrassment...

the fear...

All the other reactions...

1) Where did all those reactions come from? What created them, decided them? What creates, decides whatever happens when "you" read this?

2) You did not answer question (2) from my last message. Please make sure to answer it, and moving forward all numbered questions I ask.

- Where did all those reactions come from? What created them, decided them? What creates, decides whatever happens when "you" read this?

It just happens. Anger, Rage, sadness just happened. Moved through the body just happening.

- This idea of "I am the observer of the one who believes in the self who feels the sensations who thinks the thoughts". What observer? What I? Can any of that be found in direct experience or might it just be beliefs?

I don’t know. It felt like a sense of omnipresence. Like a seeing above it all but like blackness, nothingness.

I’ll continue to revisit

Nothing seems to be coming up besides sensations and thoughts.

[Elad]

1) So: There is no separate self/doer/controller/chooser - never has been. Is it true?

2) Is there any doubt? If yes, what?

[Noselfplzthx]

1) So: There is no separate self/doer/controller/chooser - never has been. Is it true?

It seems to be true. A glimpse of that.

2) Is there any doubt? If yes, what?

Why does it not remain? Or what continues to pull me out of that? There’s a knowing that it’s there and I catch myself when I get into habitual thoughts but there does feel like a consistent calm and knowing, like no matter the thoughts I can get out of that without fully identifying.

The doubt feels caught in time - when? What next? What now? That type of energy still remains just not potent.

[Elad]

1) Say more about the glipse of it being true. When did it happen and what else can you say about how it unfolded? Not asking for explanation, just a description of the memory, as clear as possible.

2) What is being pulled out of clarity? What exactly shows that it happens?

Really look and explore this. Look many times if needed (probably). Don't just answer from understanding or past memories.

[Noselfplzthx]

1) So: There is no separate self/doer/controller/chooser - never has been. Is it true?

It seems to be true. A glimpse of that.

2) Is there any doubt? If yes, what?

Why does it not remain? Or what continues to pull me out of that? There’s a knowing that it’s there and I catch myself when I get into habitual thoughts but there does feel like a consistent calm and knowing, like no matter the thoughts I can get out of that without fully identifying.

The doubt feels caught in time - when? What next? What now? That type of energy still remains just not potent.

It feels like both simultaneously, meaning the vastness, the “one who sees/seeing” is witnessing the one who’s asking who sees and it feels like one thing like a dance that blends. Bliss came on which feels like there’s reluctance to say that.

It feels like I can “fall into” that any time. Like it happens very easily when not doubting it.

??? It feels like there’s nothing to know.

[Elad]

"It feels like there’s nothing to know."


1) Say more about that. Not explain it, just describe as clearly as possible how that is experienced, how that manifests.


2)


Coloured Socks

There is a big difference between "knowing" (intellectually) that there is nothing to give up, no self, and *seeing* that there is no self, nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[Noselfplzthx]

"It feels like there’s nothing to know."


1) Say more about that. Not explain it, just describe as clearly as possible how that is experienced, how that manifests.

When it’s just pure presence, there are no questions that need to be answered. That all fades away, as if there are no needs/wants /desires not even the desire for that. It’s just still calm peaceful.

2)


Coloured Socks

There is a big difference between "knowing" (intellectually) that there is nothing to give up, no self, and *seeing* that there is no self, nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I am clear but further clarification of any specific difference in my responses is helpful.

What I am speaking to is trying to intellectually describe my experience (not sure how else to convey?) but what I’ve been experiencing is seeing not thinking if that’s the difference. It almost feels as if working through this in this way is adding complexity that’s not required (that’s what’s coming up for me presently) like if I’m just in presence I can trust that to be and when I’m asked about it then there’s a doubt that arises that seems unnecessary and dismissed but I also am wondering if I’m missing something and simultaneously not caring lol I don’t know how to communicate this but I appreciate your guidance

[Elad]

Good good, right, the core of this is direct experience. Words come after for communication but are never the main thing, and when we think they are, we get confused.

So I would encourage you to just stay in presence as much as possible :)

When a sense of separate self comes up, look if that in any way exists in the direct experience, if it has any reality, or is only a belief, an imagination.

With where you are now we might not need to communicate a lot - we will see. As they say "don't fix it if it ain't broken" ;)

So write me again when you wan't and we will take it from there.

[Noselfplzthx]

Good good, right, the core of this is direct experience. Words come after for communication but are never the main thing, and when we think they are, we get confused.

So I would encourage you to just stay in presence as much as possible :)

When a sense of separate self comes up, look if that in any way exists in the direct experience, if it has any reality, or is only a belief, an imagination.

With where you are now we might not need to communicate a lot - we will see. As they say "don't fix it if it ain't broken" ;)

So write me again when you wan't and we will take it from there.

Thank you 🙏🏻

[Noselfplzthx]

Good good, right, the core of this is direct experience. Words come after for communication but are never the main thing, and when we think they are, we get confused.

So I would encourage you to just stay in presence as much as possible :)

When a sense of separate self comes up, look if that in any way exists in the direct experience, if it has any reality, or is only a belief, an imagination.

With where you are now we might not need to communicate a lot - we will see. As they say "don't fix it if it ain't broken" ;)

So write me again when you wan't and we will take it from there.

Thank you 🙏🏻

There’s nothing I can sense to be a self. When I try to find the self only thoughts and words are there. I sense I’m not in control and never was that things are just happening and that there’s no i doing it. It is hard not to identify with the body but I cannot find “me” there without attempting to label with a story. Everything is invalidated through direct experience