Freedom

[MinnaO]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that there is no real person where my thoughts are refereing to all the time. There is just story of 'Minna'. I need a guide to really experience this in practical level in everyday life.

What are you looking for at LU?
A guide that can help me to see that there is no real me. I started 'Awakening curriculum' (fetter work) and need someone who is already seen through self to guide me. I am looking for practical advice how to see through my thoughts and no longer be attached by my thoughts. Someone to pull me out.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Practical straight forward seeing. I believe that guide has ability to see from distance where I am stucked, that I cannot see myself, because I still believe in my thoughts. I still believe in my story and I thik a guide can help to point that out.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Seeking enlightment from spiritual practices, books and courses for almost 20 years already and found out they were all nonsense, just entertainment for the mind really. Now I am so tired and fustrated with that. Latest was a Course of Miracles. It teached me forgiveness, but not to see through self.
I believe that inquiry is really needed.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

Hi

I did ACIM for many years & yes. it was helpful bit didn't complete the process.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[MinnaO]

Hi Stacy🙂
I would be very grateful to have you as a guide, thank you!
I read the disclaimer and what LU is not.
I live in Finland, so my time zone is Helsinki, Finland EEST.
At the moment I am travelling in Italy, so if it's ok with you, I will get back to your questions when I am at home on Sunday with better internet connections.
With kind regards: Minna

[Anastacia42]

Hi

Yes. that's fine. I'm in Colorado in the US.

Loving,

[MinnaO]

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

-I don't think that life is going to change. But maybe 'I' don't take it too seriously any more. Everyday life goes as it's always going with ups and downs. But maybe they feel in this body more neutral and there is deep knowing that everything goes always just the way it should be going.
Maybe there will be less planning the future in precise details and more feeling of presence arise in this being.
-There is no me already, so nothing will change in that sense. But maybe that sense of me weakens, or it is like every other words, just a word among others. Not identification in 'me'. Maybe more observing. And I know that these are just thoughts appearing.
-Seemingly nothing. But maybe really seeing things, without labels. Seeing the truth. Just objectives without narrative.
Freedom from mind games. More relaxed maybe.
-Belief of I, this person called Minna. Nothing else.

Those were the answers that came up.

Love : Minna

[Anastacia42]

Okay. first this on how to post. I read on my phone & quoting one at a time will matter when we share your answers to "final" questions with other guides.

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

Sorry... it didn't post. These instructions are at the end of my (long) first post.


Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi Minna,

Your expectations are pretty reasonable.


Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[MinnaO]

How will life change?

I don't think that life is going to change. But maybe 'I' don't take it too seriously any more. Everyday life goes as it's always going with ups and downs. But maybe they feel in this body more neutral and there is deep knowing that everything goes always just the way it should be going.
Maybe there will be less planning the future in precise details and more feeling of presence arise in this being.

[MinnaO]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Many feelings comes up. Firstly anger, why society has programmed us. Why this is not told at schools. Why keep people in blind and suffering so much.
This gives freedom also and kind of relief that I dont need to believe my stories...or anyone else's stories any more.
It's kind of fun to watch how people are like they are without selfs, they are just doing their things in their unic ways. That there is no other doing things like I do, and it is just happening without me doing it. Strange actually.
Fustration also...all my life I have taken my life so seriously..all of those wants and needs and never been able to be presence and enjoying what I have. Always thinking that so called happiness is in the future when I have something more than this.
Now realizing that this really is all there is and it is always good, no matter how it looks like.
Some kind of more light feeling is raising also. For instance feelings of shame are kind of not needed any more, no need to regret anything.

I hope that I used that 'quote' thing right way now🙂

-Minna-

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Minna. Yes you quoted right. Thank you.

Yes, there's often a whole mix of feelings about no self.. Sounds like you're vet aware of yours. If anything is a problem, please let me know & we can handle it.

Now...

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[MinnaO]

Yes, I think it's clear. Sound simple, thank you!
-Minna-

[Anastacia42]

Great. Here's the pointer about that:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[MinnaO]

Ok. Thank you so much Stacy!
I'll start to look and get back to you tomorrow🙂
Much love!

[Anastacia42]

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference and I'll give you the information on that. I think Vince's meeting starts in 30 minutes.

There are 3 meetings.

Vince Shubert runs one on the weekends. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule

Loving