Seeking freedom from self

[Lubo]

OK

Yes, there is knowing. That's all I can see when I look but I cannot find a me in this knowing.

What is coming when you read this:
We are looking that I doesn't exist!
but not that
I do not exist!
?

What I thought was me was just thoughts/thinking

Thoughts are following you, following the realisation
You are Vast!

This knowing can't be an observer because where does it go when 'I' sleep? It's the knowing of experience itself.

How experience can know itself?
When you are dreaming during the night - does the dream know itself?!
When you are at the cinema - some modern 5D show - does the show know itself?

Look around in the same way?

Budha points with:
"In the seen is only the seen
In the heart is only the heart..." is that sound the same 5 senses 5D show +thoughts about?

TO WHOME this show appear - ?
To whom thoughts about "the show" and about "what am I" belongs to?
:)

So much love,
Lubo

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

Thanks for your responses. Sorry. I think I am confusing matters by how I am trying to explain what I see:

What is coming when you read this:
We are looking that I doesn't exist!
but not that
I do not exist!

Sure. So 'I' exist. 'I' am here as part of experience. What 'I' am not are thoughts, feelings, body, sensations, sound or taste. What 'I' am is much greater than sense experience.

How experience can know itself?

Experience doesn't know itself. It can only be known by conscious being/consciousness.

When you are dreaming during the night - does the dream know itself?!

No :)

When you are at the cinema - some modern 5D show - does the show know itself?

No :)

Look around in the same way?

Budha points with:
"In the seen is only the seen
In the heart is only the heart..." is that sound the same 5 senses 5D show +thoughts about?

Yes

TO WHOME this show appear - ?

Me

To whom thoughts about "the show" and about "what am I" belongs to?

Not me. 'I' am not the thinker behind the thoughts therefore they cannot belong to me.

Much love
Greengage

[Lubo]

I sense your confusion, and that's totally fine!

Let's continue:

'I' am here as part of experience.

Why experience should be someone?
Experience of the wether - look trough the window, is it someone?

Experience of the body - is that someone?
Check with eyes open and eyes closed.

Experience of a thought - is that someone?
Thoughts knows - they are someone wise who can know?
or thoughts are known by someone wise, look?


you see this already in this reply:

Experience doesn't know itself. It can only be known by conscious being/consciousness.

So, you are being, but not experience, Yes or No?
For you being/god - is there separate experiences?

TO WHOME this show appear - ?

Me

Yes, me-God

To whom thoughts about "the show" and about "what am I" belongs to?

Not me. 'I' am not the thinker behind the thoughts therefore they cannot belong to me.

Is that true?
Is there someone else to whom thoughts belong to?
Ramana points that with "Know that I am God but not think that I am God"

Check also:
Do you God need to think in order to have thoughts?
You are God, notice that thoughts are coming by itself to serve you.
Thoughts are following your realisation.
Reality is empty from story, look this and thoughts will come with other quality



You are doing very well!
Love,
Lubo

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

Thanks for your questions. Here are my replies:

Why experience should be someone?
Experience of the wether - look trough the window, is it someone?

Experience of the body - is that someone?
Check with eyes open and eyes closed.

Experience of a thought - is that someone?
Thoughts knows - they are someone wise who can know?
or thoughts are known by someone wise, look?

Thoughts are known by someone wise. There is a 'me' here experiencing the weather, my body and thoughts but this me is not a fixed and permanent one; 'it' changes with the experience.

So, you are being, but not experience, Yes or No?
For you being/god - is there separate experiences?

No, there is nothing outside of experience including this being. As everything is interdependent on other conditions this being (this 'one who knows') is also not separate or unchanging.

To whom thoughts about "the show" and about "what am I" belongs to?
Not me. 'I' am not the thinker behind the thoughts therefore they cannot belong to me.
Is that true?
Is there someone else to whom thoughts belong to?

The thoughts are dependent on other conditions. There is no 'I' that can will thoughts into being or to create particular thoughts. They arise and change when conditions change. The thoughts are about me - creating this idea of a self - and do not belong to anyone else.

Check also:

Do you God need to think in order to have thoughts?

There is no me here willing thoughts into being but there are thoughts are about 'me' and what is happening.

You are God, notice that thoughts are coming by itself to serve you.
Thoughts are following your realisation.
Reality is empty from story, look this and thoughts will come with other quality

Yes, I can see that, over time, there are less thoughts and less ones about liking or not liking things and far less of a story about things. Yes, I can see that this process is happening as thoughts have been seen through for what they are - just thoughts, not reality.

Much love
Greengage

[Lubo]

Hi ,

There is a 'me' here experiencing the weather, my body and thoughts but this me is not a fixed and permanent one; 'it' changes with the experience.

Notice duality - 1. there is a wether which cause 2. experience
but Nonduality - there is experience called wether
there is a wether wich is pure experience by itself

Notice the difference.

Notice also how the identification "my body" cause ilusion of duality because wether is not label with the same "my" - "my wether",
duality - 1. there is something wich is mine and 2. something wich is not mine.

Now look around and label everything with "My" my wether, my room, my body, my Sun, my thoughts...and then the same without "My" wether, body, thoughts, feelings, sensation, sound...
Notice the difference.
is there "me" in what is found in any experience here?
Labvel everything with one and the same label, my life or life - is there me in what is?

No, there is nothing outside of experience including this being

Mmm, with wich sense being is experienced? -sound, test, smell, visual field, touching, ?
Notice that experience should happen somewhere where can be known?
Is there Direct Experience of the planet Mars?
why?

They arise and change when conditions change. The thoughts are about me - creating this idea of a self - and do not belong to anyone else.

Which realisation will cause changing the condition to "there is no self" ?
realisation of the experience called visual field? - or visual field will remain the same?
Realisation of the experience called Sound - or the experience of sound cannot realise anything because it is just an experience?
Realisation of the thoughts - or thoughts cannot realise anything?
what left?
being - mmm, what about being to realise that there is no persona and only experience of life energy?

So much love,
Lubo

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

Thanks for your questions.

I am wondering if it is in some helpful to give a description of what is happening at the moment. I am wondering whether what is not being understood is this definition of what this sense of life/being/awareness actually is that does not belong to ‘me’ but which feels present in everything.

I see that thoughts, sensations, the body, sound etc are not controlled by me. So, for example, thoughts are just coming and going away by themselves. There are less of them than a few months ago and they are less judgemental.

The body, it moves, it ages all without a ‘me’ who is in control. Sensations are the same. Sounds and sight happens without any direction from a ‘me’.

Over the past few months, there have been fewer thoughts that ‘I’ get caught up in. There are less feelings/emotions as these are seen to be just thoughts plus sensations. There are feelings of great peace and contentment. There are less stories being made. ‘I’ recognise that these processes are just happening.

I agree, no difference with the weather and the sun. These are all processes.

What I seem to be struggling with is trying to describe what this sense of presence/aliveness/being is in a way that does not come across that 'I' think it is separate from 'me'. I have tried to describe this as a sense of being or knowing.

What you say right at the bottom here is how I would best define this:

being - mmm, what about being to realise that there is no persona and only experience of life energy

I might be wrong but I feel like this is where this conversation is getting stuck?

Much love
Greengage

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

...so just to add for clarity.

A few posts back you said notice how thoughts are following experience. Once the thoughts are seen for what they are the thoughts follow the experience.

So thoughts must know themselves. There is no separate knower of thoughts.

Much love
Greengage

[Lubo]

Ok.
Let's check where the investigation stuck

So thoughts must know themselves. There is no separate knower of thoughts.

What is that wich knows thoughts and sugest that may be they knows them selfs?
Are the thoughts are someone?
Are the "me" or they are thoughts without any "me"

Notice the visual field:
without relating to thoughts - is there something separate from the rest?
Is there "me" in the visual field?

Is there me causes visual field?

Does the visual field knows that it is here?
- knows that there is such experience?
This wich knows is you, are you a persona?
Are you a thing?
Do you exist as a body, thought, sensation, experiencer (when there is no experience is there experiencer disappears?)
Check is there experiencer of the sky when there is no experience of the sky?
:)



Love,
Lubo

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

Thanks for your patience. I have been really stuck with a question in the back of my mind 'who/what sees through the self?'

Anyway, here are the responses to the questions you have asked:

What is that wich knows thoughts and sugest that may be they knows them selfs?

So what is seen is the thoughts changing alongside the 'seeing'. What is it that sees? This I cannot see by looking.

Are the thoughts are someone?

The thoughts are just thoughts. The thoughts are changing in response to a process.

Are the "me" or they are thoughts without any "me"

The thoughts are about experience of the sense fields including sight, sounds, sensations, taste, smells and other thoughts. The thoughts are not evidence of a separate me no matter how convincing they might seem at times. There would not be any thoughts without the other things that are happening - sight, sounds, sensations, taste, smell and other thoughts.

Notice the visual field:
without relating to thoughts - is there something separate from the rest?
Is there "me" in the visual field?

No, there is just the seeing, sounds, sensations, tastes and smells that make up current experience.

Is there me causes visual field?

No, the seeing just happens.

Does the visual field knows that it is here?
- knows that there is such experience?

Nope.

This wich knows is you, are you a persona?
Are you a thing?

No 'I' am just what is happening right now. Nothing separate. Just the experience.

Do you exist as a body, thought, sensation, experiencer (when there is no experience is there experiencer disappears?)

No. When 'I' close my eyes, no sight, no experince of sight. When there is no sound there is no experience of sound. If there was no body, no thought, no sensations there would be no experiencer here. No experiencer. Just the experience itself. The thoughts just make the experience seem like it is separate.

Check is there experiencer of the sky when there is no experience of the sky

No, when my eyes are closed, no more experience of the sky.

Thank you so much for your help.

Love
Greengage

[Lubo]

Hi dear Greengage,

Tell me honestly do you lissen someone sharing that there is only experience and nothing else?
I guess so, and you blindly believe it the same way you believe your parents, that you are a person, that there is a Santa Claus.
This is not you fault!
Drop this believe and question everything,
notice what you can find with the questions that point to it.

There would not be any thoughts without the other things that are happening - sight, sounds, sensations, taste, smell and other thoughts.

yes, how these (sight, sounds, sensations, taste, smell ) know that they are here?
Notice the colour of the wall, colour knows that it is here , can it experience itself?
Can you bet on that?

Notice the same here but with the body:

If there was no body, no thought, no sensations there would be no experiencer here.

so the body cause experience of the rest? Body is experiencing or body is experience as everything around? Is there body experiencing the colour of the wall?

I can offer you the easiest way:
label everything with my: My experience of the body, my experience of the wall, my experience of the sky, my experience of the whole visual field
and then notice the relief to find that there is no body separate from the rest, running here and there to fight and survive?
Everything is your, relax
But you are not what is yours.
We will continue with this .
Now focus to the relief that there is no such thing as body separate from the picture. just stories from thoughts .

I am with you
until you find what you are not
and there is no doubt of that!

Love
Lubo

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

Thanks for your questions:

yes, how these (sight, sounds, sensations, taste, smell ) know that they are here?

These things don't know they are here.

Notice the colour of the wall, colour knows that it is here , can it experience itself?
Can you bet on that

No, the colour of the wall does not know that it is here and cannot experience itself.

so the body cause experience of the rest?

No there is just the body doing it's thing. It doesn't cause the experience of anything else. There is just the body and thoughts about it.

Body is experiencing or body is experience as everything around?

No the body is just here. It body is here with everything else in the room. There are thoughts about the body and thoughts about what else is in the room. There is also seeing of the body. Seeing of the things in the room. The sound of the keyboard.
Is there body experiencing the colour of the wall?
No, the body does not know about the colour of the wall.

I can offer you the easiest way:
label everything with my: My experience of the body, my experience of the wall, my experience of the sky, my experience of the whole visual field
and then notice the relief to find that there is no body separate from the rest, running here and there to fight and survive?

Yes so there is the body - sights and sensations; seeing the wall, seeing the sky; seeing everything else PLUS thoughts about.

Everything is your, relax
But you are not what is yours.
We will continue with this .
Now focus to the relief that there is no such thing as body separate from the picture. just stories from thoughts
Yes, so there is everything that is seen and heard and thoughts about...what is left?

Much love
Greengage

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

Just to add which may be helpful.

So when there are no thoughts about sights, sensations, sounds etc there is a 'feeling' that someone is here/someone is present. When I look at that feeling, it just go backs to the sensations, sounds etc.

For example: sitting here and no thoughts arising. Feeling that someone is present. Look at this and it is just a feeling in my head, sensations in my body.

Hope that is helpful.

Much love
Greengage

[Lubo]

Hi dear Greengage,
Yes, this is helpful:

So when there are no thoughts about sights, sensations, sounds etc there is a 'feeling' that someone is here/someone is present. When I look at that feeling, it just go backs to the sensations, sounds etc

You are here, you are this presents , notice that you cannot find yourself, only your presence.
Notice "from presence" what is here and are you persona, body etc?
What makes hand to move?
Who or what is speaking?
Does the body can speak by itself ?

Amassing!

Love,
Lubo

[Greengage]

Hi Lubo

Thank you for your help and your questions. I hope you are having a good morning.

Notice "from presence" what is here and are you persona, body etc?

'Presence' feels like a resting state where everything is just happening altogether without a particular focus. So, sounds are here; body is here; seeing is here; sensations are here; thoughts are here and it is all just flowing by.

When something comes into the foreground, e'g speaking, (below), this can feel like there is a 'me' that is saying something.

What makes hand to move?

This was an interesting one. There was a thought about lifting my arm. When the hand was moving, I was looking at it turning from left to right and thought 'how is it moving itself?'

It feels like the body has an intuitive sense of what it needs to do, such as typing right now or relaxing my arm or leg when it feels tense. When there is tension somewhere in the body, it feels like there is 'a noticer'.

Who or what is speaking?

So, this is another interesting one. I have noticed that when I speak I don't have many thoughts about what I am going to say next.

When I speak, it feels like the speaking comes into the foreground and there is a sense of 'a speaker'.

Does the body can speak by itself ?

I have noticed more and more that speaking comes spontaneously, at least that's what it feels like. No need to 'think' about what gets said. There is a response. But there is this sense 'of a someone speaking'

Many thanks for all your time and support.

Best wishes
Greengage

[Lubo]

Beautiful Greengage,
You are doing very well!

'Presence' feels like a resting state where everything is just happening altogether without a particular focus. So, sounds are here; body is here; seeing is here; sensations are here; thoughts are here and it is all just flowing by.

Yes, I like that - resting state - this is home, notice that everything appear from there and we just identify with what appear but not with the home, presence/God wich we are.

Who cause movement of the hand? notice that only God/you can cause something?
Who is speaking ? :)
Is there someone else then the speaker?
Who are you? is just a pointer Where/what this pointer points?
Who knows this beauty here right now, look?
Even the knowing of this beauty is known?
What/who is holding all this to happen?
Identify with that!


Notice the expectation to find what we are in/as what is found...?
Notice the relief and freedom to find that all these right now is held from you, is there effort? or this is your nature? :)
Let's thoughts rest in the heart.

Love
Lubo