I've seen my true nature but I'm stuck in doubt and habits

[wonderfool]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I can clearly see that the story of 'me' is something that is constructed and not really real. All perceptions, feelings, and thoughts occur in a spaciousness that is my true nature. My direct experience, here and now, exposes the story as fiction and not fact. Still, the story is compelling and persistent, and I vacillate daily between the two.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide to help me break the power of the imagination and to help lessen the vacillation. I am also looking for a community of people who are working through similar things. Doubt and habits are still strong in my experience, even though I know beyond doubt that resting in the spaciousness of my true nature is the only real option for living a life from the truth that's free of illusion.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would hope to be challenged. I would like understanding. I would expect clear pointers and a direction for self-inquiry. I would hope for some instruction in embodied mindfulness practices. I would love questions that can only be answered through direct experience.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
My experience and understanding of this illusory self have primarily come through my interaction with Douglas Harding's Headless Way. Doing Harding's 'experiments and participating in the community Zoom sessions have helped me see my true nature. I am often too restless to sit in meditation, so my meditation or mindfulness practice is usually done through activities like walking, movement improvisation, and housework. I have read a lot of the Advaita, Buddhist and non-duality masters and watched lots of videos. Mostly, my practice has been through headlessness, and now it is easy to point back to my true nature. Still, as I mentioned above, doubt and habits (especially of thinking and imagination) cause vacillation.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Magdalena]

Hello, Wonderfool (a great nick, but is that what you want me to call you – or some other name?),

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Magdalena and I can join you here if you like.

So, to begin with, let’s get over a couple of formalities.
Please confirm that you’ve read and are OK with the following:
1) The LU Disclaimer http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/disclaimer/
2) The LU Terms and Conditions http://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/
3) What LU is not https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041
Also, please watch this short video to learn how to use the Quote function which we will need in our conversation: viewtopic.php?t=660

I can clearly see that the story of 'me' is something that is constructed and not really real.

Good.

My direct experience, here and now, exposes the story as fiction and not fact.

Good.

Still, the story is compelling and persistent, and I vacillate daily between the two.

Who would believe the story if it wasn't? (rhetorical) LOL
That’s how it goes, no worries.
Have your seen this video by any chance? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
Tell me what comes up. 😉

as I mentioned above, doubt and habits (especially of thinking and imagination) cause vacillation.

What is it that’s being doubted?
What stories are being told on repeat when doubting happens?

Please answer all the questions.

[wonderfool]

Hello Magdalena,

Thank you for responding. My name is Michael so you can call me that.

I confirm that I read the Disclaimer, Terms and Conditions, and information about what LU is not.

So, let's get straight to it.

Have your seen this video by any chance? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
Tell me what comes up. 😉

I hadn't seen the video, so thanks. Here is what comes up for me:

Ilona's message is very encouraging. It speaks clearly about much of what I've been going through.

The sensation is not much like "falling" (sometimes it is) but more like a game of hide-and-seek. To use Ilona's words, flip-flop also resonates. What stands out the most for me is when she speaks about the two aspects of the work: working with the mind and resting in being. Working with the mind to see the many beliefs I hold is the most challenging. I have been avoiding that part of the process. Resting in being is something that I find time for every day. My gut is telling me that the flip-flopping is somehow related to how I distract myself from really questioning the mind by going into the personal story. Then I catch myself and then turn my attention around 180 degrees to rest in the open spaciousness of my true nature.

What is it that’s being doubted?

My big doubt here is whether I am doing some sort of spiritual bypassing by dealing with the personal story and real life issues that need attention by avoiding them through escaping into present-moment awareness where they don't get a hold of me.

I do understand that this is not therapy, that there is nothing to fix and when I rest in being, that is so evident. Still on the human level, my personal life is a bit of a mess, and much of my fantasizing about how "I" can change and need to change is a big part of the story going on. It's mostly future-oriented, which produces a great deal of anxiety and stress. When I return to my true nature by becoming aware of and resting in awareness, all that anxiety, stress, and fantasizing fade away for awhile.

What stories are being told on repeat when doubting happens?

The more I have doubted the sense of a separate, personal self, the Michael story, the more I felt there was no way to make practical changes that whatever this "I" is needs to do to flourish in life. This journey into questioning the self has occurred alongside a sense of losing my purpose, my interest in work, creativity, and relationships. For example, I started to create my own business of communication coaching (I also teach acting and improvisation workshops), and so much of that depends on being on social networks and creating a "personal" brand. All that feels like a big lie to me now. And when I see others trying to do the same thing, successful or not, I just see through it too.

Again, I am clear that this process is not therapy or coaching and is in no way intended to make "me" better in any way. Still, I think my disillusionment with the lie, with Maya is something that I am struggling with.

As I am writing this, I am feeling how difficult it is to express something clearly, and now I am doubting if I am somehow evading the deeper issues. Please let me know if you feel that's happening.

At any rate, I want to share with you an insight I had when I joined Luchana and Lubo's Zoom meeting last Thursday. I shared with them my struggle with the vacillation, the flip-flopping that is going on, and Luchana asked me to look for the one who is controlling the flip-flopping. I found no one, of course. That led me to the realization that if there was an "me" who could control things, then why wouldn't I find a way to make myself stay in being, in spacious awareness, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? It seems it all comes down to grace in the end (although maybe that's just another belief). At least it gives me some appreciation for what I am going through and a cue to be gentle with myself.

Thanks Magdalena. I hope to be able to be more precise with my answers as we go on.

[Magdalena]

Hello Michael,

Nice to meet you. 😊

… to see the many beliefs I hold is the most challenging. I have been avoiding that part of the process.

It may seem like you have, but there’s no avoiding this. Not to mention that you’re aware of the fact that beliefs, stories, etc. need to be examined and challenged. It’s all good.

Practically speaking, it’s a matter of making this questioning a habit. Also, it helps to be aware that some beliefs etc. may be coming up time and again, even after we think they are no longer there. No need to obsess over mental stuff, no need to take it too seriously. Better see it as entertainment which comes free of charge.
So you’re in for a lifetime of complimentary fun, basically. LOL

Resting in being is something that I find time for every day.

I imagine that by this you mean some time you dedicate to whatever form of meditation you find appealing. Again, this is good, but – LOOK – is there anything that IS NOT being?
Is there a you that can or cannot rest in something else?
Is there any place where rest cannot be had?

Even the phrase is weird, isn’t it?

What if this “resting” was extended to even short breaks between your daily activities? It doesn’t have to be very deep – but simply taking a quick leap from time to time into that quietness, spaciousness or whatever you may want to call it.
Can you try and test this today, tomorrow and see how it goes – make it a habit?

My gut is telling me that the flip-flopping is somehow related to how I distract myself from really questioning the mind by going into the personal story.

Is what you call the mind separate from the personal story?

My big doubt here is whether I am doing some sort of spiritual bypassing by dealing with the personal story and real life issues that need attention by avoiding them through escaping into present-moment awareness where they don't get a hold of me.

Well, only you can know that.
For one thing, there's nothing wrong with attending to life issues that need attention, is there?

But if you’re using meditation and returning to the present in order not to experience some unpleasantness related to what you consider your past or your future, it may be viewed as some form of bypassing.
Instead, you can question whatever uncomfortable thought story comes up with “How do I know this for a fact?” If you go down deep enough, one story leading to the next, and if you question each like this, where does that take you?
Try it and see for yourself.

I also like asking thought stories an even simpler question “So what?” Again, if you disarm one after another in this way, at some point you’re left with something so ridiculous that it makes you laugh out loud.
Laughing helps. No need to be terribly serious about stuff. It is not. 😉

On the other hand, since you mention bypassing – isn’t bypassing but a label for some section of what’s happening, and so – if it’s happening, it’s happening, and that’s that. Like you could choose to do bypassing or not to do it.
Can you?

…on the human level, my personal life is a bit of a mess, and much of my fantasizing about how "I" can change and need to change is a big part of the story going on.

Here’s where we need to LOOK.
This is about your expectations, Michael.
Were/are you expecting that once “awakening” happens, Michael’s life will be less of a mess? Better? Nicer? Upgraded? Improved? Etc.
Why would it?

Do you think Life cares whether Michael’s life improves or not?
Why would it matter?

Is Michael in control of Life??

Isn’t Michael but a character in his story? Of course, his story is the most important to him, but ask the next person and they don’t give a damn about Michael’s story – because everyone finds their own story to be the most important. (Doesn’t Michael do that too?)

…all that anxiety, stress, and fantasizing fade away for awhile.

What happens if you look closely at them and below them when they are occurring?
Aren’t you basically OK with them too?
LOOK – LOOK when an opportunity presents itself.

The more I have doubted the sense of a separate, personal self, the Michael story, the more I felt there was no way to make practical changes that whatever this "I" is needs to do to flourish in life.

Do you believe that seeing through the separate self is supposed to enable Michael to flourish?
Why would it? In appreciation? As a reward? An encouragement?

… a sense of losing my purpose, my interest in work, creativity, and relationships. … All that feels like a big lie to me now. And when I see others trying to do the same thing, successful or not, I just see through it too.

This happens. The way of seeing changes, and so do the priorities.
Isn’t Life about change in the first place? Meaning, some relationships/purposes/interests etc. change, while some stay? This can happen regardless of questioning things. It’s happened in Michael’s story. Some things may return, others may not.

Aren’t you curious about what happens next?
Perhaps it’s time to look out for other business/occupation/relationship opportunities – who knows? Perhaps all this is only highlighting something that has not been acknowledged – or has been feared – rejected – resisted – you name it?
Also, isn’t it often only in retrospect (OK, story – but still) that we see that whatever was happening was OK? Even though it wasn’t experienced as such when it was happening?

… my disillusionment with the lie, with Maya is something that I am struggling with.

Let’s try and keep it simple, shall we? No need for obscure philosophical concepts etc.
If there’s this sense of disillusionment, so be it. Why struggle with it? Keep it with you as long as it needs to stay. If it goes, it goes. No control over this, is there?

Please let me know if you feel that's happening.

I have no way of knowing. But if you keep looking at beliefs and stories, clarity may emerge.

if there was an "me" who could control things, then why wouldn't I find a way to make myself stay in being, in spacious awareness, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Hahaha, yes, spot on!

It seems it all comes down to grace in the end (although maybe that's just another belief).

It may well be. Again, no need for obscure religious concepts that can only obstruct our communication.
In order to be free from all that b/s, beliefs need to be questioned as they come up. That’s all.

a cue to be gentle with myself.

Oh totally. Whatever that “yourself” may or may not be. 😉 Keep it gentle – don’t blame “yourself” for what “you” were never in a position to control. Take it easy. Things will sort themselves out. The sh*t does not go for ever.

[wonderfool]

Hello Magdalena,

Thank you for your straightforward and clear responses and questions. There is a lot to take onboard, so I will take your questions and suggestions as prompts to look into what's happening over the next couple of days. I'll be back in touch soon.

Michael

[Magdalena]

Hey Michael,

Absolutely - do take your time.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Magdalena]

Hello Michael,

How are things? Would you like to share anything?

[wonderfool]

Hi Magdalena,

Things are going well. There is so much to reflect on with all of the questions you asked. And it's gotten me to write a bit more about these things than I usually do. It's helpful to go into things and then try to articulate them.

Practically speaking, it’s a matter of making this questioning a habit.

More and more these days, I’m making questioning a habit, even though there are still times when I’m too close to the personal story to remember to do so. But the fact that the questioning is happening more often seems to show that something is shifting.

I imagine that by this you mean some time you dedicate to whatever form of meditation you find appealing. Again, this is good, but – LOOK – is there anything that IS NOT being?

What if this “resting” was extended to even short breaks between your daily activities?

I don’t really dedicate any time to formal meditation on a regular basis. I used to feel bad about that and would have thoughts about being spiritually lazy. Looking, though, has become a regular habit. I found this through the kind of looking that was pointed out to me by Douglas Harding and the Headless Way. It’s just a direct pointing back at what is being aware rather than only focusing on the objects and events in awareness. I don’t need to set time aside or try to concentrate or be still to do this. I do it while walking, washing the dishes, and hanging out with friends, and I am doing it now while typing these responses. So, as you said, there is nothing that is not being. There is only being. Even when I am not being aware of being, it’s still there.

Is what you call the mind separate from the personal story?

I’m not sure if what I call mind is separate from the personal story. I sense that the personal story is something that mind does, but I also sense that it does other things too, like other types of thinking, emotions and sensing. I also sense that mind is not my true nature, but something that rests in that true nature. It’s tricky though, because what is mind if it is not a concept? So at the end of the day, I doubt it’s important to come up with a definition and qualities of mind for liberation to occur.

Instead, you can question whatever uncomfortable thought story comes up with “How do I know this for a fact?”
I also like asking thought stories an even simpler question “So what?”

I really like this. “How do I know this for a fact?” seems so often to produce the response “I don’t.” That would mean that not only is doubt okay, but it is actually useful for putting things in perspective and for creating a bit of a gap in thinking. “So what?” is also a good response. It’s something my 15 year-old daughter says to me all the time. What a good prompt to look into things. You’re right to say there’s no need to be terribly serious about stuff. I have always had fun with things, except when the situation is so personal. The great thing here is that, if I look, there is nothing personal, so why not laugh about that too.

This is about your expectations, Michael.
Were/are you expecting that once “awakening” happens, Michael’s life will be less of a mess? Better? Nicer? Upgraded? Improved? Etc.
Why would it?

I have always had expectations about life improving. I suppose everybody does at some point. I’ve seen though when I turn my attention around to look at what is aware of everything, there is nothing to improve there. It’s just simply there, being aware. And I know that is my true nature, who I really am.

I guess what I have been hoping for is that “awakening” will help me not identify so closely with things when they are not going "my way." That I will just be able to see them for what they are without too much personal stake. I sense that this may happen (or it may not), but I will only find out by making this “looking” more of a habit, as you suggested. Not just when it’s easy or convenient for me, but also when I am involved in a difficult interaction, or ruminating, etc.

(Reading what I wrote above made me laugh. I mean, am I saying that I only want awakening to help when things "are not going my way"? Am I also saying that I want awakening to leave things alone when they "are going my way"? I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but it's quite silly on a second glance.)

What happens if you look closely at them and below them when they are occurring?
Aren’t you basically OK with them too?
LOOK – LOOK when an opportunity presents itself.

Yes! Another reminder to look. When I look, I am okay.

Do you believe that seeing through the separate self is supposed to enable Michael to flourish?
Why would it? In appreciation? As a reward? An encouragement?

The answer to all those questions is "no." I am beginning to see that the only intention that this awareness has, here at ground zero, is simply to be aware. I can't ask for anything else. Flourishing may or may not happen, I suppose. When I look at nature, I see that often it does and sometimes it doesn't. Yet it also occurs to me that any investment in the personal story might actually be the thing that is stopping flourishing from happening. I won't know until that investment subsides, and in any case, awareness will accept whatever happens. It always does, doesn't it?

Aren’t you curious about what happens next?
Perhaps it’s time to look out for other business/occupation/relationship opportunities – who knows? Perhaps all this is only highlighting something that has not been acknowledged – or has been feared – rejected – resisted – you name it?

I am curious. And a bit scared too. I suppose that is natural, and I need to feel those feelings too. I've been trying to turn my attention away from thinking when fear comes up by just trying to feel it in the body. When I do that, I can't even label it as fear and I really can't describe the sensations in words very well. It's just there, and eventually it moves on. Like you said, life is about change. I'm learning to welcome it, even when it brings up strong feelings too.

If there’s this sense of disillusionment, so be it. Why struggle with it? Keep it with you as long as it needs to stay. If it goes, it goes. No control over this, is there?

This is a funny one since I know that, on some level, I love illusion (and story). They are fun, and I shouldn't take them too seriously. I've lived a life playing characters onstage and somehow insisted that "Michael" should be authentic. That's kind of silly, isn't it? The only authenticity I can find is when I turn my attention around and see the spacious awareness at the center of things. This disillusionment with "the lie" or inauthenticity is very clearly a belief that is quite funny, even absurd, when I begin to question it consciously.

no need for obscure religious concepts that can only obstruct our communication.

I agree. I suppose what I wanted to point to when I used the word "grace" is that it seems out of my control. That it's just happening. Upon reflection, I realized that "grace" implies some "good" outcome and that maybe it's better to avoid making those distinctions. As Hamlet said, "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." It's enough to say that it's just out of my control. It is still better to take it a step further and acknowledge that there is no one here to exercise any control over anything going on.

Again, thank you Magdalena for helping me to look. This has been an interesting week for me, seeing things in different light. I am both excited and curious about where our conversation will go.

Michael

[Magdalena]

Hello Michael,

Good to hear from you. You’ve done some really good LOOKING. ;-)

More and more these days, I’m making questioning a habit

Good. :-)

…even though there are still times when I’m too close to the personal story to remember to do so.

This happens. Even if you remember to question things at a later point, this counts too. :-)

Looking, though, has become a regular habit.

Good.

… pointing back at what is being aware

Can we ever know “what is being aware” – like, for a fact? ;-)

objects and events in awareness

This is a phrase so often used by teachers, but can you know it for a fact that objects and events appear in awareness – or does it only seem so?
Can you actually SEE awareness when LOOKING?

there is nothing that is not being. There is only being. Even when I am not being aware of being, it’s still there.

Yep, there is What Is. Beyond that, can we know anything for a fact?

I sense that the personal story is something that mind does

But can the mind be found when LOOKING?
Or is it simply an umbrella term used to refer to all the mental processes in bulk?

I also sense that mind is not my true nature

As in “you are not your thoughts”?

… but something that rests in that true nature.

Is there any way to know what rests where (for a fact LOL)? Other than Michael resting on his sofa for instance – but even that may (and needs to) be questioned at some point.

It’s tricky though, because what is mind if it is not a concept?

You nailed it.

So at the end of the day, I doubt it’s important to come up with a definition and qualities of mind for liberation to occur.

Oh totally. Couldn’t agree more.

there’s no need to be terribly serious about stuff. I have always had fun with things, except when the situation is so personal. The great thing here is that, if I look, there is nothing personal, so why not laugh about that too.

Absolutely LOL
The tone of this post of yours seems lighter, too.

I have always had expectations about life improving. I suppose everybody does at some point.

You know what, I think we have no way of knowing what expectations “everybody” might or might not have.
My life changed dramatically when it suddenly became obvious that nothing needs to be different – and that in fact it never did – no matter what things looked like and what could be said about them. I certainly had never expected this gift of an insight – I could not have imagined it in my wildest dreams. Sharing this story to tell you that expectations (or lack of expectations) are totally irrelevant. They belong in storyland.

(Reading what I wrote above made me laugh. I mean, am I saying that I only want awakening to help when things "are not going my way"? Am I also saying that I want awakening to leave things alone when they "are going my way"? I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but it's quite silly on a second glance.)

You nailed it again LOL

When I look, I am okay.

Good.

the only intention that this awareness has, here at ground zero, is simply to be aware.

Oh please – there you go again – for one, you’ve got no idea about what you call “this awareness”. Secondly, even if you did, how would you know if it had any intentions, and what they might be?
Stop fantasizing. No need to repeat stuff that gets mindlessly repeated enough times already.

it also occurs to me that any investment in the personal story might actually be the thing that is stopping flourishing from happening.

That’s a practical observation and it makes sense.

… in any case, awareness will accept whatever happens. It always does, doesn't it?

Sorry, I’ve got no way of knowing this – and neither have you.

I've been trying to turn my attention away from thinking when fear comes up by just trying to feel it in the body. When I do that, I can't even label it as fear and I really can't describe the sensations in words very well. It's just there, and eventually it moves on.

And then it comes back at some other prompt, right?
There’s no escape from feeling fear etc. in the body. At the end of the day, it’s not about sitting and feeling. Life’s movements sometimes require that we get up and actually do things, WHILE feeling whatever and however needs to be felt.

I'm learning to welcome it, even when it brings up strong feelings too.

Life’s the best teacher, in my view.
What a cliche LOL
Are you separate from Life?

It's enough to say that it's just out of my control. It is still better to take it a step further and acknowledge that there is no one here to exercise any control over anything going on.

It that coming from the mind or is that your lived experience?

Again, thank you Magdalena for helping me to look.

You’re very welcome – and thank you.

I am both excited and curious about where our conversation will go.

Me too – and I have absolutely no idea where it's going. LOL

[wonderfool]

Hi Magdalena,

I can see from your reply how expression misses the mark when it comes from the mind. I appreciate you pointing that out to me. Let's see how it unfolds this time around.

Can we ever know “what is being aware” – like, for a fact? ;-)

It's true I cannot know "what" is being aware for a fact. It also seems true to me that something that I call awareness is going on. It feels more like a happening, a process, or a verb. But to talk about it, I chose to use the word "awareness" which makes it into a thing. I wonder how else I can point to it without falling into the trap of thingifying anything. In the end, I know that it doesn't matter until I try to speak.

This is a phrase so often used by teachers, but can you know it for a fact that objects and events appear in awareness – or does it only seem so?
Can you actually SEE awareness when LOOKING?

I wasn't aware that I was using language of other teachers but I've listened to enough of them that I can imagine that's the case, ha ha! It seems to me that there are things (objects) and stuff happening (events) and then there is something aware of it all. That is how it has felt for a long time. But when I really look, I cannot locate awareness anywhere. There is no distance between things and happenings and the process of awareness. This process of being aware seems to be everywhere all at once and the things and happenings are just here.

When I look for awareness, I seen nothing. I cannot describe it. I cannot even say that I see it.

Yep, there is What Is. Beyond that, can we know anything for a fact?

Nope. The only thing that is true is What is, Here and Now.

But can the mind be found when LOOKING?
Or is it simply an umbrella term used to refer to all the mental processes in bulk?

I am using the word mind as an umbrella to refer to mental process in bulk. That seems most true to me because I cannot locate a "mind" anywhere. Still, thinking, imagining, and sensing seem as important as all things in the world, like the tree and bird outside my window or the chair I am sitting on. But now I wonder that if everything is important, then maybe none of it is really important. I'm not sure I am expressing this well. I guess I am trying to say that I don't want to deny the "reality" of the processes of the mind because it is something happening like everything else. On the other hand, I cannot make the distinction between "inside" and "outside" because they all seem to be happening together, even though some are seemingly invisible while others are seemingly visible.

As in “you are not your thoughts”?

Yes, in that way. I've started experiencing life more and more that way after a long time of mostly identifying with thoughts.

You know what, I think we have no way of knowing what expectations “everybody” might or might not have.

You are absolutely right. I cannot know anybody else's expectations unless they tell me about them. Even then, I have to wonder if what they say is accurate because, from my own personal experience, my expectations are often hidden from me.

What I wanted to point out is that in people's personal stories, there seemed to be an expectation of becoming a better person or having a better life. I wasn't really talking about the spiritual search and expectations of awakening as much as just the personal stories and the evidence of so much therapy, self-help, and coaching going on that is always directed towards a future "self." But like you said, that all belongs in storyland and is not what we are looking at here.

Oh please – there you go again – for one, you’ve got no idea about what you call “this awareness”. Secondly, even if you did, how would you know if it had any intentions, and what they might be?

That's right. I have no idea about what awareness is. Like I said above, I have a hard time describing it other than that it seems to be the process of experiencing what is going on and of knowing life in the most basic sense. The only way I can possibly describe it is that it seems to be the unchanging nature of being aware of what's going on. It seems to be the only "thing" about myself that I can really say has always been here and hasn't ever changed. That seems true to me but all other ways of talking about it like awareness, consciousness, spaciousness, emptiness, etc., just seem like more concepst laid upon the indescribable. As far as intentions go, it seems that there are no intentions. I was trying to say that it was only just happening, but I realize now how much the mind wants to find meaning and intention even in what is without intention.

And then it comes back at some other prompt, right?
There’s no escape from feeling fear etc. in the body. At the end of the day, it’s not about sitting and feeling. Life’s movements sometimes require that we get up and actually do things, WHILE feeling whatever and however needs to be felt.

Yep, it always comes back. There's no escaping what is. I have tried over and over to escape, and even when I thought that I I had managed to do so, I felt a sense that whatever I had tried to escape was "stalking" me. That's really delusional, no? A double delusion, ha ha.

It that coming from the mind or is that your lived experience?

It comes from both, I suppose. I've had many experiences in my life that have clearly shown me that I really have no control over anything. I have also fought with life, and while sometimes, from the point of view of a separate self, it might seem that I have won (or lost), I realized that I couldn't truly know if my will had anything to do with that since there were so many other unknown factors influencing the moment. Now that I see that the separate self is a fiction, the whole idea of control over anything is meaningless.


There's more clarity for me now, even though the conditioning and some habits are still going on. The difference is that they are not as compelling as they were not long ago.

I'm going with my daughter to spend a month with my parents in the US soon. I'm sure a lot of new things, questions, and doubts will come up then. I cannot even imagine now the kinds of worries or hesitations I had in the past about such visits. I'm quite excited and curious about what might happen.

Thanks,

Michael

[Magdalena]

Morning, Michael,

expression misses the mark when it comes from the mind

It does, doesn’t it?
I tend to feel that language can easily become a new sort of veil once we adopt someone else’s way of talking about this, ridden with their own concepts and assumptions. That’s the last thing that’s needed, isn’t it?

It's true I cannot know "what" is being aware for a fact. It also seems true to me that something that I call awareness is going on. It feels more like a happening, a process, or a verb.

Yes, I agree.

I know that it doesn't matter until I try to speak.

LOL yes – that’s right.

This process of being aware seems to be everywhere all at once and the things and happenings are just here.

I’ve heard this being referred to as “aware-ing” – perhaps it’s more accurate than the passive “being aware” which sort of suggests a duality?

When I look for awareness, I seen nothing. I cannot describe it. I cannot even say that I see it.

Yes.

The only thing that is true is What is, Here and Now.

“What is” - or simply "this" - is as succinct as it gets, in my view, with the reservation that we have no way knowing what “What is”/"This" is. Yes, we are at a loss for words here, aren’t we?

all things in the world, like the tree and bird outside my window or the chair I am sitting on. … I cannot make the distinction between "inside" and "outside" because they all seem to be happening together, even though some are seemingly invisible while others are seemingly visible.

So it’s all at once – like seeing and hearing, sensing etc. the bird, the tree, the window, the chair and your bum, and simultaneously not being able to find a boundary between any of these – is that what you’re saying?

I was trying to say that it was only just happening, but I realize now how much the mind wants to find meaning and intention even in what is without intention.

Yes.

There's no escaping what is. I have tried over and over to escape, and even when I thought that I I had managed to do so, I felt a sense that whatever I had tried to escape was "stalking" me. That's really delusional, no? A double delusion, ha ha.

LOL yes.

Now that I see that the separate self is a fiction, the whole idea of control over anything is meaningless.

Totally.

There's more clarity for me now, even though the conditioning and some habits are still going on. The difference is that they are not as compelling as they were not long ago.

Exactly.

I'm quite excited and curious about what might happen.

Enjoy your visit, Michael.
You’re always welcome to share anything that you wish here on this thread – even if it’s just to let me know that you’d like to have a go at our so-called final questions. ;-)

[Magdalena]

Hey, Michael,

How did the holiday go? How are you doing?